Original sin or Ancestral sin


#1

Hi,
I have read in the Internet, about original sin or ancestral sin, but do not seem to
understand it, Both from the view of the Eastern Orthodox and RC view.
What will be the correct interpretation in so far being a Catholic, I would like to be
enlighten from the readings of the Holy Bible. Which chapter or verses should be the
basis for this interpretation as a rule of faith as a Catholic.
Thank you.


#2

I would recommend looking at Original Sin in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). Look at CCC 396-409. In particular, look at CCC 404:

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man". [293] By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. [294] It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

[293] St. Thomas Aquinas, De Malo 4,1.
[294] Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1511-1512

Original sin is passed on to all because we are all one human family. As it says, if we were not all implicated in Adam's sin, we could not be implicated in Christ's justice.


#3

John 9:3

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. …"

I think He is telling us here that there is no "ancestral" sin, meaning the "sins of the father" are not literally "visited upon the son" but, in fact, the father may have issues due to his own life that affect how he treats his son, not that God makes the son "pay" for the father's sin.
MHO


#4

[quote="ellzeena, post:3, topic:334237"]
John 9:3

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. …"

I think He is telling us here that there is no "ancestral" sin, meaning the "sins of the father" are not literally "visited upon the son" but, in fact, the father may have issues due to his own life that affect how he treats his son, not that God makes the son "pay" for the father's sin.
MHO

[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. From Humani Generis:

"Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]"

We are all born with Original Sin.

Peace,
Ed


#5

We all know what original sin is--it is my belief that ancestoral sin is passed on by those who let it to be passed on. My take would be a child of an alchoholic, who was raised in a home like this and grows up to be an alcholic him/herself etc. We can break the chains of this type of sin through prayer, or suffer the consequences of not doing everything in our own free wlll to stop these sins.


#6

[quote="mommy_k, post:5, topic:334237"]
We all know what original sin is--it is my belief that ancestoral sin is passed on by those who let it to be passed on. My take would be a child of an alchoholic, who was raised in a home like this and grows up to be an alcholic him/herself etc. We can break the chains of this type of sin through prayer, or suffer the consequences of not doing everything in our own free wlll to stop these sins.

[/quote]

That is not what the Church teaches. We all have Original Sin regardless of how we were raised.

Peace,
Ed


#7

Thank you Ed, so ancestoral sin and original sin is the same thing?


#8

[quote="moral30, post:1, topic:334237"]
Hi,
I have read in the Internet, about original sin or ancestral sin, but do not seem to
understand it, Both from the view of the Eastern Orthodox and RC view.
What will be the correct interpretation in so far being a Catholic, I would like to be
enlighten from the readings of the Holy Bible. Which chapter or verses should be the
basis for this interpretation as a rule of faith as a Catholic.
Thank you.

[/quote]

There are not many Scripture passages, but here are two.

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. . (It's Ps 50:7 in the Douay version)

Romans 5:12 -21 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned -- sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. If, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man,much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man's act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous. Law came in, to increase the trespass; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


#9

[quote="ellzeena, post:3, topic:334237"]
John 9:3

"And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. …"

I think He is telling us here that there is no "ancestral" sin, meaning the "sins of the father" are not literally "visited upon the son" but, in fact, the father may have issues due to his own life that affect how he treats his son, not that God makes the son "pay" for the father's sin.
MHO

[/quote]

The "ancestral sin" in the opening post is a reference to original sin. My understanding is that the Orthodox call it "ancestral sin" and the Latin Church calls it "original sin".


#10

[quote="edwest2, post:4, topic:334237"]
I'm not sure what you're saying here. From Humani Generis:

"Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]"

We are all born with Original Sin.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

Oh no I'm not saying we are not born with the stain of sin that was the result of the sin of "Adam and Eve". There's always been some argument here and there that an illness was the result of some sin, that if you don't get better with prayer it's because your faith is lacking, that the "sins" of your "ancestor" (person lineage, parents, etc) are visited on the unborn that enter the family. I'm not saying this is from Roman Catholicism (although there may be people in the Church who believe this :shrug: ) but I have heard it preached from Protestant pulpits. I think Jesus tells us something very important here: any affliction of any nature (physical, mental, emotional, etc.) is not a punishment but is used for God's glory, ultimately, if we allow it to be so. :)


#11

[quote="Nita, post:9, topic:334237"]
The "ancestral sin" in the opening post is a reference to original sin. My understanding is that the Orthodox call it "ancestral sin" and the Latin Church calls it "original sin".

[/quote]

Gotcha!!!! :thumbsup:


#12

Although I can't locate right now, I've read an entry in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which explains original sin, in a particular way (there's a lot of hits on "original sin" in an online catechism). I'm referring to one which tells that the full explanation of original sin only comes with the revelation of Jesus Christ and the meaning of his passion and death. Without an original sin, the redemptive work of Christ is without an anchor or explanation.

but this explanation doesn't come until the NT is written, so the Jews can't rationalize original sin.


#13

[quote="sirach2v4, post:12, topic:334237"]
Although I can't locate right now, I've read an entry in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which explains original sin, in a particular way (there's a lot of hits on "original sin" in an online catechism). I'm referring to one which tells that the full explanation of original sin only comes with the revelation of Jesus Christ and the meaning of his passion and death. Without an original sin, the redemptive work of Christ is without an anchor or explanation.

but this explanation doesn't come until the NT is written, so the Jews can't rationalize original sin.

[/quote]

Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraphs 359, 388 & 389.

A correct explanation of Original Sin is the foundation for the Divinity of Jesus Christ.


#14

The terms Original Sin and Ancestral Sin both refer to the first sin of our common parents, Adam & Eve. But the terms may describe the effects of that sin somewhat differently, with AS having different consequences depending on the Orthodox commentator.

In any case, for my money the different descriptions are complementary rather than being at odds with each other.


#15

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