[quote=GrzeszDeL]Given that the Catechism also gives an explanation of the doctrine which does not jibe with your spin on it, would this not indicate that perhaps you are misreading Trent, Florence, etc? Incidentally, I am not sure that we might say that the canons of Orange are “in force.” Orange is simply a local council and is thus pretty low down the magisterial force scale. The teachings of Trent & Florence, however, are quite definitely irrevocably binding.
And I’m saying that is a direct influence from Paul VI, but as Pope John Paul II said, in the piece I quoted from, the councils of Trent etc need to be read and understood as confirming the basic doctrine of Original Sin as taught by the RCC, that it is an inherited guilt, a positive movement into a state of sinfulness from a state of grace. This is the RCC doctrine, you might not like it, but JPII answers you there also, which I carefully included in my extract from his teaching on this.
The “original doctrine” is in no wise meaningfully different from the formulation which Paul VI (or Pius XII for that matter) gives. You have yet to bring forward any magisterial documention which makes clear that (and I include the texts which you cited on the Immaculate Conception thread when I say that). There is nothing more than the work of some speculative theologians which holds that “original sin” means an actual culpable fault inherited by virtue of our descent from Adam. The magisterial documents which you cited most definitely do not define “original sin” as a positive fault. The “original sin” from which we must be “cleansed” is a mere privation.
Are you saying that Humani Generis and Pope John PauI II’s exposition on Original sin are not magesterium documents?
Please read my replies more carefully, Pope John Paul II has gone to great lengths to explain this teaching as being time-honoured and by revelation as held by your Church.
Both sources I gave were official teachings of the Original Sin doctrine against speculative theologians, such as yourself I might add…
I’ve already given an example from the CCC which shows the “Pope and magesterium’s teaching” confirms the acceptance of Orange. From Post 20 of :The Immaculate Conception: An Eastern Doctrine:
406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. … The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297