Original Sin


#1

If you inherit sin, how did Jesus and Mary both get skipped on original sin? Both were obviously human. If God could do that for them, why not for everyone?

If you inherit sin, why can’t you also inherit being saved?

Thanks


#2

Jesus was God incarnate and Mary was a special application of God’s grace.
Immaculate Conception and Assumption
Mary: Ever Virgin (Fathers*)
Mary: Full of Grace (Fathers*)
Mary: Mother of God (Fathers*)


#3

Also see this article on Original Sin:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp


#4

My buddy John Martignoni! :thumbsup:


#5

Just a quick note…original sin is not an actual sin. We do not inherit sin but rather a sinful nature.

God bless,
~G


#6

Well said!


#7

Okay. I read the article. And I’m still confused because if Adam (no original sin) didn’t get cancer, how is it that a baptized person can get cancer?

And if we can inherit a sinful nature, why can’t we inherit salvation the same way?

Thanks


#8

Please allow me to tag on my question on the same subject:

When we say Mary and Jesus were born without the stain of original sin, is that the same state as Adam and Eve before the fall? Or is that the same state as a baptized person, i.e., still subject to concupiscence?


#9

My understanding, as someone else pointed out, is that Mary is the beneficiary of a special application of grace. Call it a “post-dated check”, if you will: Christ’s sacrifice applied to Mary, as it applied to all human beings before her.

Am I off base here?

Peace,
Dante


#10

Mary was touch by God at the moment of her conception. that is why she is called Immaculate Mary or the Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception is Mary’s conception not Jesus… She and God (or the holy spirt) concieved Jesus. He is sinless because he is the son of God and Immaculate Mary.Mary was not just plucked out of humanity. Her conception was prepared for by God.She was favored by God and planned for and protected by and angels for all ages. Hope that helps. By the way are you a Catholic or a recent convert. This is very basic Catholic stuff here.


#11

Perhaps I worded my question poorly. Let me ask another way.

Was Mary subject to concupiscence? Was Jesus?

The genesis of the question came from the doctrine that although baptism washes away the stain of original sin, its consequence of concupiscence remains and that’s why we continue to sin. So my question comes down to, did the special grace granted to Mary, and the divine nature of Jesus’ sinlessness, eliminate concupiscence from their human nature? Therefore Mary was the new Eve because she was without sin and without concupiscence as Eve was created. And Jesus in his human nature the new Adam in the same way.


#12

For the same reason that a baptized person can get cancer: we still suffer from the effects of Original Sin, though no longer from the sin itself. IOW, we have been brought into relationship with God through the Life, Death and Resurrection of Christ, being baptized into Him, but we remain subject to concupiscience and the other ills that befell Man at the Fall.

And if we can inherit a sinful nature, why can’t we inherit salvation the same way?

Our fallen nature is a result of an act of our First Parents (more precisely, by Adam); our salvation, likewise, was won by the acts of Our Savior, the New Adam; we in our turn, being transformed into His image, are also called upon to act, i.e., to respond to God’s grace that raises us up to participate in the Divine Nature. God wants our response freely; thus, we do not inherit salvation except by, as St. Paul says, “working out our salvation in fear and trembling.” If we were to inherit salvation (which God COULD have done), our love wouldn’t be freely offered, but a natural consequence of being born.

You might find this article helpful re Original Sin:

bringyou.to/apologetics/num54.htm


#13

It is the common teaching (sententia communis) of the Church that in Mary concupiscence was so bound as not to have her tend in any way toward disordered desires. The teaching of the Church regarding Christ and concupiscense is of a higher theological degree (sententia fide proxima); it is generally seen by theologians as a truth of Revelation, but hasn’t yet been fully promulgated by the Church - it would be should a need to clarify it for the Faithful be recognized. (I’ve seen a need at times on this forum. :frowning: ) The teaching is that in Christ concupiscence was completely removed, thus the powers of His senses were completely subject to the direction of reason, and thus He could not sin. It is de fide, however, that Christ was free from all sin, both original and personal. (cf. Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma).


#14

Jesus attoned for our sins and for Adam’s sin, therefore from the moment of His crucifiction all persons afterwards were born with no sin and the sins they commit are their own sins, not Adams.
Otherwise why did Jesus Christ have to die at all, if not to attone for all the sins of the world? All of the people who lived up to the time of Christ’s death were then resurrected and when He comes again it will be the second resurrection. We will all be rejoined spirits with bodies and judged according to our works on earth. Then we are assigned to the hell or heaven that we have earned by our actions during our lives. Adam has already been judged and given his place for eternity. Is that a crock of bull or what? That is what one church teaches, guess which one if you can?


#15

GrandpaD,

At first I thought you were serious! Then I breathed a sigh of relief when you said, “Is that a crock of bull or what?” LOL! Now, don’t keep us in suspense, what church teaches that?


#16

Makes my stomach turn to know people actually believe this… :frowning:


#17

I am wondering why you believe outside of what the scriptures teach… even though Mary had sexual relations with her husband. and Jesus who was born of the virgin at that time by the power of the Holy Spirit, why would you consider that Mary did not have sin? Mary did have original sin. As taught by the apostle Paul in the letter to the Romans, “all have fallen short of the glory of God.” Did Jesus have any sexual relations with any human here on earth? I find no text for an affirmative answer on that. I would think that if Mary was without sin, putting her in the same state of Holiness as God incarnate, is nothing more than blasphemy. And because the Roman Catholic church teaches that Mary was with out sin, how does the fact that St. Paul writes that when a person has sexual relations outside of marriage, with a sinner, the very sin is against their own body. She would stand condemned to eternity separated from the presense of God. For Joseph did not “know”(as you know this is the term used for ‘having had sex’) respectivelly speaking, with his wife until after the birth of Jesus. Now Joseph needed a saviour as much as Mary. But if Mary was ‘holy’ and without sin, why would a Jewish girl who knew the laws of God, and the result if the law was broken, would unite herself with a man who was a sinner, thus defiling herself? So as it is, Mary would stand condemned if she had not put her faith in the only sinless one…Jesus the Messiah.

Shalom.


#18

Hi

I agree with you, and I think Jesus also agreed with it.

Jesus said he was a Son of Man, and rightly so, though he was strictly speaking a Son of Woman.

Who is this Man, in the Son of Man? Obviously it is Adam. Now from all past people Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and Jonah; why did Jesus select Adam for being his son? Only because Adam did something which ought not to have been done by him, but he did it by mistake and when he realized he repented and asked forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH, Adam resolved not to persist on it and he was forgiven by GodAllahYHWH.
I don’t know those who still think that Adam sinned should realize as to whose sons they are if not of Adam’s. Jesus was a Son of Man, most certainly; anybody who believes in Jesus must be a Son of Man or find for somebody else whose son such person would be.

Thanks


#19

Where is that in scripture or anywhere in sacred tradition?

and Jesus who was born of the virgin at that time by the power of the Holy Spirit, why would you consider that Mary did not have sin? Mary did have original sin. As taught by the apostle Paul in the letter to the Romans, “all have fallen short of the glory of God.”

“All” is pretty inclusive. If you want to use this quote literally! That would include Jesus who is fully man [and fully God]
So I guess all is not literal here.

Did Jesus have any sexual relations with any human here on earth? I find no text for an affirmative answer on that.

There is no text for Mary either.

I would think that if Mary was without sin, putting her in the same state of Holiness as God incarnate, is nothing more than blasphemy.

Then you limit God. That is blasphemous.

And because the Roman Catholic church teaches that Mary was with out sin, how does the fact that St. Paul writes that when a person has sexual relations outside of marriage, with a sinner, the very sin is against their own body. She would stand condemned to eternity separated from the presence of God. For Joseph did not “know” (as you know this is the term used for ‘having had sex’) respectively speaking, with his wife until after the birth of Jesus

“Until” doesn’t mean after the fact that he did it. It means that up to that point he didn’t You have to learn English.

Now Joseph needed a savior as much as Mary. But if Mary was ‘holy’ and without sin, why would a Jewish girl who knew the laws of God, and the result if the law was broken, would unite herself with a man who was a sinner, thus defiling herself?

Why would God send his Son to redeem all these sinners?
you seem to be second guessing God a lot. You seem to want o limit God’s love an awful lot. Could it be that you do not like His mother. Jesus honored his Father and mother. Is there a problem?

So as it is, Mary would stand condemned if she had not put her faith in the only sinless one…Jesus the Messiah.

huh?


#20

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