Orthodox catholics

Neither of the local Melkite parishes used the communicant’s name when I received from them. (The translation on the Melkite Eparchy of Newton has the communicant’s name being used.) Our Russian parish does commune with names-- it’s in the text of the OCA which is what we use. It’s also in The Byzantine Luturgy: A New English Translation… Third Revised Edition put out by the Russian Center at Fordam University in 1955 which was in use in the past in my parish when we switched from Slavonic. “The servant/handmaid of God, N, receives the precious and Holy Body and Blood…” The Ruthenian priest here communes using the name of the communicant. In the Melkite parishes and the Ruthenian those priests knew me so I don’t know what would have happened were I a stranger approaching for Holy Eucharist.

I also recall a conversation I had with some Orthodox, who expressed a bit of shock that Catholics follow such a policy, since Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, etc could be getting in line. (I don’t recall too many details of the conversation, as it was some years ago.)

They get in line at times in the Latin Church, as do Catholics who are not “properly disposed”.

We have visitors at most Liturgies in my ECC. Typically some do not go up for Eucharist for whatever reason. Most of our visitors are Latin Catholics and they usually approach one of us and say something about it being their first time. We do get Orthodox visitors, and typically they don’t go up, tho at least one does when she visits. I think if someone presents for Eucharist in my parish the priest will commune them, similar to the Latin Church. Sometimes we have a large group of visitors and at those times our priest tends to say something before beginning distribution about how to receive if they are going to receive.

A few days ago I was at a funeral in a Latin parish. I was seated very near the Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion who had the Precious Blood. One person who approached and took the cup seemed clearly unfamiliar with what to do. Unfortunately the priest’s comment at the time for people to approach made no mention of Eucharist being sorely for Catholics, properly prepared to receive Him. EMsHC are trained that it is their duty to safe guard the Eucharist so I felt this EMHC was in a very odd position when the priest had made not effort to instruct the many visitors there about who should and should not approach.

Yes, it would be a sin. Don’t do it.

Not always, but in *this *particular hypothetical scenario, yes, your silence does constitute a lie. Because you know Orthodox do not commune Catholics, and you know it would be a violation from their point of view for them to administer the Holy Eucharist to you. For you to take advantage of sincere ignorance would be a sin against the eighth commandment - and in this case, a grave sin since this involves the Holy Mysteries.

Furthermore, silent deceit isn’t likely to get you Communion at an Orthodox temple. Especially if it’s a smaller community, the priest would likely ask anyone he doesn’t recognize who presents themselves for Communion if they’re Orthodox or not…

That’s not a good analogy, Jerry.

The Israelites were, by God’s decision, entitled to the land the Canaanites occupied.

We Catholics are not entitled to the Sacraments of the Eastern Orthodox Church. We have a solemn moral obligation to respect their rules.

No offense, but I don’t believe you. It’s lying, it’s disrespectful, and you know it. How would you feel if a Protestant did this at a Catholic Mass?

Their rules prohibit it, and to do what you’re describing would be to deliberately convey the blatant falsehood that you are a canonical Orthodox Christian. As I said, it’s a sin against the eighth commandment… perhaps the seventh, too: you’d effectively be stealing their Sacrament.

Correct. God expects you to treat your fellow human beings as you would want to be treated - or, in the words of our Lord, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

If you wouldn’t want a Protestant or non-Christian secretly and deceitfully presenting themselves for Holy Communion at a Catholic Mass, then charity obliges you to show the Orthodox the respect you expect from others.

Going a few extra days without receiving the Eucharist won’t kill you.

Interesting. At my local eastern Catholic parish, the priest does ask your name if he doesn’t know you when you approach to receive Holy Communion.

Then your conscience is defective in this particular, and you should work on improving that.

You are wrong about that, Jerry.

Do you understand that you are not an arbiter or interpreter of God’s will?

Well, a feeling can’t be morally wrong, per se, but yes, your feeling that you are entitled to the Eucharist in churches with whom we are not in communion is misplaced and inaccurate - it doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation.

I’m not afraid to ponder such truths, I’m just not bold and foolish enough to believe that I can know God’s will in such a concrete, particular instance.

What I do know is this: As long as you would object to a Protestant sneakily receiving Communion at a Catholic Mass, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” obliges us not to receive at an Orthodox Liturgy unless they would honestly, truly allow it.

To receive when you know their rules prohibit it is truly a slap in the Lord’s face.

Couldn’t have said it, any better, myself.

Are you saying that the Catholics don’t take their sacraments seriously? I’m sure that we do.

Don’t the Orthodox do their mass the same way we do and don’t they believe in transubstantiation? It is all the body and blood of Christ. Why the big fuss.If you receive him in either place it would be the same. I just don’t get it. However, I will obey the rules of the church and not receive their communion if I ever visit one of their churches.

They do divine liturgy, not the mass. The format is kind of the same, but it’s expressed differently.

But, to your point about it’s all the same, it’s true. But, the problem is Orthodoxy, and Catholicism aren’t in communion with each other, since the Great Schism, of 1054 A.D. Because of this, each side can’t (technically, despite there’s word the pope saying Orthodoxy can receive the host in Catholic churches) receive each other’s hosts. I know, in the Byzantine church I go to has this clearly stated in the communion section(s) of the Liturgy book. It says whoever’s not in communion, can’t receive the host/blood.

We wouldn’t expect any different from our Orthodox brethren. But, like others have stated, it may be up to the priest, in either precinct, whether or not to offer communion to those not in communion with the church in question.

Never thought of it that way but when I think about it that makes sense. We do have our differences. I don’t believe they have a sole head of their church, that is a human one as we do the Pope. They will only except God as the head of their church. What they don’t understand is that God is the head of the Catholic Church too. However, he did in the bible leave a human being Peter on earth to guide us.The Paraclete is here to lead us in the right direction. Amen!

That’s why I pray continuously for reunion between our churches, under the direction of God’s will. I have met many nice people, at the Orthodox church I go to vespers. I pray for the day, we get to commune together, in the Holy Eucharist.

Me too Issanjose!

Flower Lady,

It might help you to know that the Orthodox Church does not have opinions regarding the sacraments of other churches that are not in communion with it. So, whereas the Latin church or those in communion with it might say (according to their theology) that Orthodox sacraments “have grace”, “are efficacious” or whatever the term is (I don’t really remember at this point; sorry), there is no such across-the-board pronouncement on the sacraments of other churches on the part of the Orthodox. It’s the kind of thing that doesn’t really bother or concern us, since we aren’t supposed to be partaking with them anyway (any other situation you might find is very irregular and not to be taken as establishing any kind of precedent-setting opinion on the part of the Orthodox).

When Coptic people first started moving to where I live (Albuquerque, NM) in the early 1980s or thereabouts, there were not enough of them to constitute a community, so they couldn’t receive their own priest to serve them in liturgies. Because of this, they obtained permission from the Coptic Orthodox bishop of this area (I don’t know who would’ve handled it back then – maybe there wasn’t even such a bishop in those days; today it is HG Bishop Youssef) to commune at the local Greek Orthodox Church, which has been well-established here for decades. After the bishop of the Greeks agreed to allow the Copts to receive there, the Copts began to attend liturgy there and receive the Eucharist. Some time later, after more Copts and other Oriental/non-Chalcedonian Orthodox moved into the area (Ethiopians and Armenians), there were finally enough that the people could again petition the Coptic bishop for their own priest. So about 16 years ago we were blessed to begin to celebrate the Coptic Orthodox liturgy with Fr. Marcus and Fr. Philemon of the neighboring churches in Arizona (the nearest Coptic Orthodox Church is about six hours from Albuquerque; I was baptized there…it’s quite nice), who take turns bi-monthly, serving us twice a month if we’re lucky. We still don’t have our own consecrated church (we’re working on it!), but we meet in the private home of some of one of the deacons.

Once this situation was established wherein we have our own priests (even though they’re “borrowed”; heh), communion between the Copts and the Greeks in Albuquerque ceased. Our priests have told us in no uncertain terms that we will not commune Chalcedonians, and all of our visitors (including two frequent Catholic visitors from the local Jordanian Christian community) understand this. We still enjoy very warm relationships with the local Greek Orthodox and the local Catholics, but we cannot commune with them and they cannot commune with us. We only communed with the Greeks (1) by our and their permission; and (2) until we had our own normal situation, with our own priests, serving our own liturgy that expresses our own faith.

I hope this little example helps you to understand what the big deal is. :slight_smile: We believe in our faith, and you believe in your faith, and they’re not the same faith, so we commune separately. It has nothing to do with intellectual assent/belief or non-belief in a particular philosophy about the Eucharist, but about whether you confess what we confess (which you do not, by virtue of being in union with Rome and accepting its heterodoxy).

So then how do you explain the fact that even the Catholic Church says that Catholics can receive communion from the Orthodox, the ACoE, or the PNCC, only in cases where it is “physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister”? (And even then there are a couple of other restrictions.)

I understood that all along that the two faiths are different, but I was under the impression that the Mass, communion and confession were the same as ours. Anyway, thanks for the imformation. I’ll have to visit an Orthodox Church one day. Have a good evening and God Bless! Brenda

They believe that we are heterodox, though. That’s why they don’t commune members of the Catholic Church.

Obviously, I think they’re wrong about us. I think we are orthodox. But we have to respect their rules and their standards.

Exactly. As much I truly do believe we share the same faith - the Orthodox Faith - not everyone agrees with this, and so we are not in communion. Communion with each other is important enough that dzheremi, for example, is absolutely right.

We must all respect the fact that our churches are not in communion with each other. Like it or not - and I don’t like it - that fact has consequences which must not be ignored.

That’s true from our point of view as Catholics. The Orthodox, however, do not have an official position. So by their standards, they can’t know if our Sacraments are valid.

i do not think that you would be able to do such a thing in a such a Church. but no expert here.

Because the Holy Eucharist is most properly administered through the Body of the Holy Catholic Church.

I also think that if I had no other choice and they did not ask about my church or specifically state that no Orthodox should come up for reception, I would take communion or penance, if it was possible to do it anonymously. I certainly would waste no precious seconds fretting over “damning my soul” for it, unless I approached the Lord with unrepented mortal sin or without reverance; Plus the Orthodox wouldn’t know it and so wouldn’t have to be offended or scandalized by my receiption. Only the Lord and I would know and I don’t see him being offended by my receiving him just because some people would, especially if no one is aware of it or harmed by it in any way. While they may believe they’re protecting the Lord from me, I don’t -so if I had no other choice and I could do it without scandalizing anyone or having to lie, I would. But it’s highly unlikely that I wouldn’t be able to find Catholic options or that I’d be able to do it anonymously so it’s all purely hypothetical anyway.

Please let us know how it goes when you actually attempt to receive the Holy Eucharist in an Orthodox Church.

Why on earth would I?? There’s plenty of Catholic churches around. Plus I don’t get your comment since I said it was all hypothetical anyway due to its unlikelihood in reality. :shrug:

At every Parish I’ve attended, it is announced before Communion that only Orthodox who have properly prepared themselves should take Communion. To disregard that, and to disregard what you know to be the wishes of the Church is certainly a major sin, and a deception. I have no doubt that that would be considered partaking “unworthily”. If you have to sin to get it I believe that will be brought up at the final judgement.

To withhold Communion from from a worthy Catholic is not good. …And Catholics are worthy.:cool:

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