Orthodox Jews protest at disputed Jerusalem site

Jerusalem (AFP) - Hundreds of ultra-Orthodox Jews gathered Monday near the reputed scene of Jesus’s last supper in Jerusalem demanding that Israel keep sovereignty over the site where Pope Francis will celebrate mass.

The pope will visit the Holy Land from May 24-26 and before returning to Rome is set to hold a mass in the site known as the Upper Room or Cenacle, on Mount Zion near the walls of the Old City . . .

“When ‘the crusaders’ come here making the sign of the cross and all kinds of rituals, this place will become idolatrous for us, and we will not have the right to pray there any more,” ultra-Orthodox Jewish protester Yitzhak Batzon told AFP.


King David probably isn’t really buried there on the ground floor but it doesn’t look like there is much room for compromise on this one.

Do you really think the “Zionist State” would even contemplate signing over Mount Zion???


I am no longer naive to how the Isreali’s along with our media have been manipulated us Americans over the last say 66 years. After reading numerous books from everyone’s perspective about Palestine /Israel my prayers go out to the Palestinians.

The absolute cunning of the Isreali government to churn people up like union agitators makes me wonder if they had a hand in this ultra orthodox uprising.

I believe Isreal’s overall intent is to obfuscate the Popes mission in bringing light to the plight of the Palestinian people. FYI I am Catholic but part Jewish myself.

Gods peace be with you,

Whilst I agree that many of Israel’s actions are dubious I should point out in Judaism there is no such concept as ‘part Jewish’, one is either Jewish or not Jewish.

Well some people claim to be ethnically Jewish, don’t they?

That works, and Israel would accept them as Jewish, provided they haven’t joined another religion.


Jerusalem police late Saturday night arrested 26 right-wing activists who had holed themselves up in an east Jerusalem compound venerated by both Jews and Muslims in protest over a planned visit there by Pope Francis . . .

Police say the men were arrested at the Mount Zion building, where Jews believe the Biblical King David was buried, after they threw rocks and bottles at them . . .

The compound, venerated by Christians as the place where Jesus held his Last Supper, has inspired passions and ignited tensions, casting a pall over Francis’s scheduled visit there on Sunday.


More protests.

It’s nice to think that it is the original Upper Room in which the Last Supper took place but I saw a program on EWTN today with Father Mitch Pacwa, S.J., and, according to him, he stated that the Cenacle building has an original foundation structure that would have been part of the building at the time of the Last Supper but the original Upper Room was destroyed when the Romans sacked Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the current Upper Room was rebuilt sometime after that event.

There’s also a phony rumor / phony news story circulating that the Vatican is currently in negotiations with the Israeli Government to buy the Upper Room.

This is getting off the topic somewhat, but I think the days of Israel and Judaism are numbered anyway. They’ve served their purpose, and Christ’s church is now world wide, if divided, and vastly outnumbers the Jews.

I don’t know how God will move them out of the way, but I think He’ll do so eventually.

The next big challenge for the Church is not going to be Judaism or Orthodox Jews. It will be Islam in the religious sense, and the modern state in the political sense.

This sort of demonstration is a pin prick compared to what I think might be coming.

Lots of people have agreed with you over the past three millennia - aided by attempts at physically annihilating us, attempts at religiously/culturally annihilating us by conversion, attempts at crushing us by driving us into exile and diaspora - yet here we are still, unlike most of the perpetrating empires and cultures.

The “Upper Room” was likely not really a room, but a rooftop. Meals were often had on roof decks because it was cooler.

This would have been destroyed in AD70, and in any case, the vaulted roof was added by the Crusaders.

So while the site is likely the same, it does not surprise me that the structure is not original.


Nope, Judaism is here to stay.

They will still be alive and well on the day our LORD shows up.


Granted you’re still here, and I have no wish to harm Jewish people or anybody else. Far from it.

But I sometimes wonder why Jews still reject Christ as the Messiah when the Christian Church has far surpassed Judaism in numbers, spread and influence, despite the undoubted and disproportionate contribution of Jews to science, psychology, education, business, finance, political thought and politics and a number of other areas.

I get irritated for example when hardline Orthodox Jews state Mary was a whore, and Christ a bastard. They’re arrogant. This is the Son of God they’re talking about.

Or if for example they want to stop the Pope from his upper room prayers as per the original post. They seem to miss the point that it might have some significance to us as well. They’re not the only people on the planet.

I’ve had a fair number of spiritual experiences of my own and so have a lot of other Christians, and in a specific Christian context. A lot of the time they’re from God, although as with any spiritual experience, there is always a risk of the demonic.

Christ is real, as all of us will find out the day we die. Make no mistake about that.

I’ll give you three experiences which my Catholic psychiatrist (yeah, I know, this makes me a nut - actually I originally went to him for depression) labelled a “double whammy”. He called it that because it’s happened to him as well, although I don’t know the context in his case.

It’s like a breath going through you in waves from head to foot, very pronounced, very sudden, and it comes from an external source. If it ever happened to you, you’d know about it. There’s no mistake about where it comes from. It sure doesn’t come from yourself.

It’s happened three times in my case, and three times only, and each time it was used to emphasise words that another speaker was saying, and in a specific Christian context each time.

The first time it happened I was in a bad mood, as a new Christian, due to a recent divorce, being chewed out by the boss not long before, and feeling out of my depth in the particular “beach mission” I was involved in, with an outfit called Scripture Union. I was wondering how I knew this new Christian religion I was involved in was “true” and not just a psychological prop.

The Bible Group leader was reading from one of the Kings or Samuel books of the Old (Jewish) Testament, and intoned the words, “… a man after my own heart…” (referring to King David). Precisely as he did so, this “double whammy” hit me. I got a hell of shock, and nearly fell off the chair, but it had two salutary effects - the first was that it confirmed that I was in the right place. I was in a Christian Bible study, and although we were referring to a Jewish Scripture, the entire context of the study was Christian. It also encouraged me at that somewhat difficult time.

When I related the event to my own pastor later on back home in the local church, his comment was “I think the Lord just wanted to encourage you. He knew you’d been through a difficult time.”

The other two “double whammies” took place over the next few months, both times in church when my own pastor was speaking. The first of them referred to St. Paul, and the other to CS Lewis, the 20th century apologist and writer, both specifically Christian characters. Make no mistake - they’re imposed on you from another source.

And it hasn’t happened since.

The Christian Church hasn’t come about and continued for 2000 years in a vacuum.

And I’m afraid, at the risk of sounding vindictive, that I still think Judaism’s days are numbered. Whether there’ll be a mass conversion to Christ (unlikely as you would find that), or whether there’ll be some other event I don’t know. The Jews have carried out their purpose, and now its the Christian Church which carries the torch, handed on to us by the God-Man, Jesus Christ, who was also a Jew.

Apparently it’s not good enough for the hardline Orthodox Jews that when God took on the form of a man, He did so in a specific Jewish form - a man who preached in their very own synagogues.

So they’d rather reject Him, and His representatives.

Never confuse the number of adherents a faith has with it’s truthfulness.

Oh dear.

But we are very, very naughty.

Only when you have not had any chocolate in your case. The Stormfront version of ye olde Talmud seems to have been doing the rounds of the forums in the last few days I notice since that post about a ‘Jewish friend’ (Im still not sure about the veracity of that thread’s opening post), thus illustrating Terry Pratchett’s oft used line about a lie going half way around the world before the truth has got it’s boots on. Not to mention that classic post elsewhere about Jews hating Christians and been liars if they deny it, there’s really no arguing with that kind of ‘if you deny it you are part of the conspiracy’ type of thinking.

True to my roots, I’m afraid it’s lack of ice cream that really does it.

The Stormfront version of ye olde Talmud seems to have been doing the rounds of the forums in the last few days I notice since that post about a ‘Jewish friend’ (Im still not sure about the veracity of that thread’s opening post), thus illustrating Terry Pratchett’s oft used line about a lie going half way around the world before the truth has got it’s boots on.

I was expecting her to reveal all about the blood in the matzos, perhaps she’s saving it up for their next date. :wink:

]Not to mention that classic post elsewhere about Jews hating Christians and been liars if they deny it, there’s really no arguing with that kind of ‘if you deny it you are part of the conspiracy’ type of thinking.

Even at my age it often takes my breath away, the Jew as the wolf that ate grandma.

There’s a difference between Jews and Muslims - Muslims do naughty things because their religion is naughty or it’s not a naughty religion but they’re led astray by naughty extremists or the actions of very naughty Jews drive them into being naughty.

Meanwhile Jews are just too naughty for words and the world would a much less naughty place if we just disappeared.

Yes, just a little bit. :rolleyes:

Here is a news update:

Sunday 8:30 A.M.: Jerusalem police say they have arrested 26 Jewish nationalists holding a violent protest at the Cenacle in Jerusalem, the traditional site of Jesus’s Last Supper, where Pope Francis is due to hold a Mass on Monday.

The protesters have gathered at the venue several times this month to denounce what they said were Israeli plans to hand over parts of the site to the Vatican. Israeli authorities deny any such intention. The hall on Mount Zion, just outside the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem, was constructed by the Crusaders and renovated by the Franciscans during the Middle Ages.

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