What does the Orthodox Church think of the Roman Church? do they love us, hate us, think we're two sides to the same coin, that we're the anti-christ, etc. Just out of curiosity.
I suppose the general view would be that Catholics are Christians who possess a great deal of the truth - though they lack in some areas.
If you look for it you’ll find the extremes - those who believe we’re two sides of a coin, and those who say Catholics are the anti-Christ.
As for loving and hating… we try our best to love as Christ commanded.
Is it true that Orthodox view our bishops as invalid? And our sacraments? Do the Orthodox view that Jesus in present in the Holy Eucharist in our church?
I am but a catechumen, so take my post with a grain of salt, but I have not seen any such emphasis on the concept of “validity” in the Orthodox Church. This seems like a Roman Catholic idea, or at least primarily so. Anyway, as one of the lovely aunties in my church put it to me (actually with reference to the Byzantines, but it also applies to the RC), “We don’t commune with them.” That’s it. We don’t commune with them. You may take that as you wish.
There is absolutely no official position on the validity of RC Bishops, or the RC eucharist. Individuals may have opinion, but the Church itself hasn’t made a ruling, and quite frankly, the point is irrelevant to us at this point and time, and it is unlikely that any answer will be forthcoming.
I think that is an excellent answer.
My father was catholic and he baptized me at a orthodox church because of circumstances; he and my grandparents always said the churches are the same but high rank clergy doesn’t get along (for their reasons); priests of both churches doesn’t like to speak on the subject because they have a duty to guide their parish members; from church member level of view the differences are only in form and not in essence. Historically, members of both churches said things of each other that were later regreted…
Officialy, all the anathemas between eastern eurtope orthodox and catholic churches were canceled; you can have comunion in a catholic church as well as in a orthodox church…
i don’t know about orthodox churches from asia minor or north africa
That’s not really true though, Ion. The initial mutual excommunications were rescinded, but the Great Schism was about a lot more than just that; the excommunications were more like the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. If that was not the case, the EO and the RC would have been in communion with each other at least some time after the rescinding.
As for the Oriental Orthodox, the issues and background relevant to the Chalcedonian schism are completely different than and really have no bearing on what happened hundreds of years later between the Byzantines and the Romans. Personally, I see more of a chance of improvement in relations and understanding (not necessarily leading to communion in my lifetime) between the OO and EO than between either and the RC, as many of the laity view one another as substantially Orthodox, some even going so far as to say that they share the same faith. But of course you will also find many who hold other opinions, such as the monks of Mt. Athos or St. Catherine’s, or for that matter my priest here at St. Bishoy Church. Nevertheless, we keep praying.
As has been said, views on the Roman Catholic Church in Orthodoxy run the gamut.
Generally speaking, in America at least, most cradle lay Orthodox are quite friendly towards Catholic people. Converts to Orthodoxy, especially from Catholicism, tend to be more critical.
A very simplified view of the Orthodox theologians and apologists, which if you frequent Orthodox folks you will often hear, is that the Protestant churches have taken essential things away from the Apostolic Faith, the Roman church has added things, and the Orthodox church has preserved it pure and intact.
I see. Thanks for being honest. Always appreciate these discussions.
Thanks for the info.
Lack in some areas? Name the areas us Catholics lack in Truth?
Preserved it pure and intact? Oh you mean Orthodoxy is very ethnic (Greek,Russian,etc)? I would not call that pure and intact.
Yeah, very unlike those dang Latino, Polish, Irish, Filipino, Maltese, Lebanese, Iraqi, etc. Catholics... Very silly.:rolleyes:
Nope! Still a difference. My parish has lots of Latinos but it is not the majority as I have encountered with Orthodoxy and even my neighbor who is an Orthodox has stated the same.
Well, when I was Roman Catholic, there were elephants in my backyard. At my home parish, there were so many Latinos (reflecting the racial makeup of the city at that time) that they had their own masses, where they were the only people there. They had their own priests who served their community. We were completely separate communities; the Latinos even got different homilies. I know this because I went to both; the Latino mass was an hour later, so it was easier to get to. I was pretty much the only “white” person at the Latino masses, and it was pretty rare to have the Latinos at the English mass.
Contrasted with my current (Coptic Orthodox) church, it seems a bit better on the Orthodox side. I’m still usually the only white person (there was one other that used to come, but I haven’t seen him in a while), but there are also Egyptians, Ethiopians, Sudanese, and Jordanians, depending on who shows up that day.
So I don’t think it is right to generalize from anecdotal evidence. The groups I listed in the previous post are well-known for having ethnic (national) churches, yet no one ever accuses the Roman communion of being “ethnic”.
Why? You’ve been around long enough that you should already know the answer. Aside from that, even if after all this time you still don’t understand what we see as the issues between us, that isn’t the topic of this thread. Your best bet would be to start a new thread asking what we see as the deficiencies in the Roman Catholic Church.
The Churches are not ethnic, they are geographic. The Russian Orthodox Church, for example, serves many ethnicities, not just Russians. The situation in the Americas is only the way it is because of the way Orthodox groups came into the Americas in waves, and established separate hierarchies. Phyletism is a condemned heresy within the Orthodox Church, so it would be nice if you would not spread such misinformation.
I’m always amused by Catholics who will talk about their Spanish, Irish, Polish, etc. Parishes in one breath, and the next accuse Orthodox Churches of being the same.
I live in an area with a lot of Ukrainians, so unsurprisingly most members of my parish are Ukrainian - except they’re all multi-generational Ukrainian who are so westernized that you can’t tell the difference (culturally) between them and someone like myself, whose family came to North America before the American Revolution.
If the nationalism is proof against the Orthodox Church, it stands to reason that it is proof against the Catholic Church, which means that Lutherans are clearly the One True Church - oh, except they also have that German/Scandanavian thing going on.