OSAS Again! Weeee!


#1

I have a question for all those who don’t subscribe to OSAS…and note this is NOT an invitation for everyone to junk this thread up with thousands of quotes and things prove OSAS isn’t true or is true or anything. But I do invite comments on the following.

Do you that don’t subscribe to OSAS or at least some kind of ‘security’ walk around in fear and terror all the time? I have to admit that I"ve often wondered what kind of misery it must be to have to live knowing that you’ll never know if you’ll make it. That you’ve done the best you could and still have to say “I don’t know” if ever asked “where do you think you’ll go if you die.” To have a lifetime of service to God “erased” by one, or even a series, of some sin and die in that state…and go to hell?

So please…don’t tell me I need to wake up and smell the sulphur burning, and don’t tell me all about the justice of God, and don’t give me one single verse or anything. I don’t want any of that.

What I want is for the non OSAS people to comment on if they’re ever scared to go to hell. What sin (mortal sin?) makes you scared? I’m looking forward to good Catholic reponses but all who don’t subscribe to it feel free to reply. You know? Do you sleep well at night just not knowing?

Good grief…I probably sound ridiculous. I probably sound fabulously fundy “**Friend! Do you know where you’ll go if you die RIGHT NOW???” **I’m not trying to sound like that. I’m really wanting to know how you guys deal with it, or if it’s even a problem for you.

Comment away. :slight_smile:


#2

Do you that don’t subscribe to OSAS or at least some kind of ‘security’ walk around in fear and terror all the time?

Nope.

I have to admit that I"ve often wondered what kind of misery it must be to have to live knowing that you’ll never know if you’ll make it.

No misery…I just don’t presume to know the mind of God, but I do trust in His love and mercy.

That you’ve done the best you could and still have to say “I don’t know” if ever asked “where do you think you’ll go if you die.”

The truth is the truth regardless of what I choose to “believe” in or not. And the truth is that God is in charge of me when I die, and it is up to me to surrendier to His will.

To have a lifetime of service to God “erased” by one, or even a series, of some sin and die in that state…and go to hell?

I don’t share this vindictive image of God.

What I want is for the non OSAS people to comment on if they’re ever scared to go to hell.

Everyone should be scared of hell…not so much the fire, but because of the absence of God.

What sin (mortal sin?) makes you scared?

Pride. It is the most seductive.

Do you sleep well at night just not knowing?

Like a baby.
Because I know our God is a loving father and is eager to save us all.
I personally believe He does not throw people into hell, so much as people choose hell themselves. Their anger, pride, hatred may prevent them from accepting God’s mercy - or his presence.
For some people, hell may seem preferable to them than to stand in His presence.
Human parents who love their children do not purposefully throw their children out into the streets. But sometimes a rebellious child will choose that life rather than live in the house with the authority of the parent.

I’m really wanting to know how you guys deal with it, or if it’s even a problem for you.

I deal with it by trusting God.
He brought me into this world, and one day He will take me back.
He is a loving merciful Father. If He weren’t - He wouldn’t have sent us such a wonderful loving Savior.
God is in charge…it is up to me to surrender to whatever He sends my way.


#3

OSAS?

Oh, Once Saved Always Saved.

I think there is something in the Bible that if you leave us, you really weren’t with us in the first place. Anyway, I think if you are born of the spirit and seek to please the Lord, then you don’t have to worry about much else. I have peace, and I have been receiving the fruits of the spirit from somewhere or other, so I don’t sweat it.

I don’t worry about hell. I do my best moment by moment and trust God will call me if He needs me, and that I can hear it.

Alan


#4

I don’t live in fear of going to Hell, even though I do believe that I could lose my salvation. I pray that God will give me the grace not to fall away or, what is probably more likely for me, drift away. I know that someone I love could die at any time from disease or accident, but I don’t live in fear that they will die. I feel the same way about not having 100% metaphysical certainty of salvation. I may lose my salvation, but I am more likely to lose it by sitting around worrying about it and maybe falling into despair than by having a loving trust in the mercy and grace of God.
Knowing that it is possible for me to lose my faith also encourages me to make each day count, because I know that if I drift away, it is likely to happen slowly. Maybe I’d skip prayer one day because I was really tired, and then I’d stop praying altogether, and then I’d stop believing altogether. I don’t sit around worrying about it, but it does encourage me to persist in prayer, no matter how tired I am, because I want to give God every opportunity to give me grace and because I want to run the race with perserverance. I don’t sleep well at night, but that’s because I have a sleep disorder, not because I’m worried about going to hell.
The short answer: No, I don’t live in fear. I trust God and have a relative assurance, although not 100% metaphysical certainty, of salvation.


#5

No worries, however I think fear of Hell is the most motivating factor for all Christians period. There almost must be a fear of Hell or Christianity would not really be necessary.

Would I like to have certainty? Absolutely! However is it possible to know the Judge’s verdict before He gives the verdict? Unfortunately not. Of course, if a Christian is living the most Christ-like they can, then certainly they should have a pretty good bet on where they will end up. I don’t think Pope John Paul II had too much fear :wink: However, fear of absolute certainty by no means justifies one believing in OSAS. In other words…if lack of certainty brings on “misery,” the Truth is still the Truth, completely independent of our emotions and feelings.

What it boils down to for most I believe, can be summed up by Paul’s statement in 2 Cor. 1:10 “on him we have set our hope that he will deliver us again,” or 2 Cor. 13:6 “I hope you will find out that we have not failed,” or Rom. 5:2 “we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God.” I only list these verses because I think Paul does a way better job of articulating my disposition than I do :smiley:


#6

If you worry about it constantly, I don’t think He will send you there!
Think about it!
:hmmm:


#7

I feel no fear not because I am OSAS but as a Catholic I have an understanding of God in a more family way. God is our Father, if I trust and obey in Him then I am saved, not as some contract that I do my part and Bam I am in heaven, but more in a loving sort of way.

In my joy and love of my relationship with God, I obey His will and it gets easier the more I foster my relationship with God. This gives me a confidence but not a guarantee, I am not God, it is His decision and I trust in God.

I know that I might fall or do something bad, but there is the beauty of being able to confess my sins and be able to try harder next time. I trust in God’s mercy should I desire to confess and I am not able to, I am certain God takes that into account. So it is not like I have an occasion to sin, sin, then worry about getting dying before I am able to confess. It is not like I am always worried about the whammy, too bad, you missed out kinda mentality. I really don’t think Catholics have that thought, we trust in God’s mercy.

He knows our heart. I just cruise around in life joyful that I am part of this beautiful thing called the Catholic Church, how God has blessed me and how can I share it with others.

God Bless
Scylla

Short answer,
Naw, I don’t really worry about it too much, I trust in God’s love and believe with faithfulness I’ll be saved.


#8

I posted a similar thread for those to respond to who do adhere to the belief of OSAS. So as not to get this thread off-topic…those who are OSAS can respond here: forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=57364


#9

[quote=Curious]Do you that don’t subscribe to OSAS or at least some kind of ‘security’ walk around in fear and terror all the time?
[/quote]

No.

I have to admit that I"ve often wondered what kind of misery it must be to have to live knowing that you’ll never know if you’ll make it.

It would be more miserable walking self-righteously then facing Judgment and being told off. Think about it.

That you’ve done the best you could and still have to say “I don’t know” if ever asked “where do you think you’ll go if you die.”

Simply put: who are you to presume what God’s judgment will be? Are you God?

To have a lifetime of service to God “erased” by one, or even a series, of some sin and die in that state…and go to hell?

For you eternal security people: what do you think of sin? I have this impression, based on your remark here, that you think that sin will have no bearing once you’re “eternally secured”. Does this not smack of going against Scripture, wherein sin is an abomination and affront to God? What would justify or excuse you for committing sin then, may I ask?


#10

No, no fear, no misery. Plenty of trust and hope.

What you need to appreciate is that mortal sin is a conscious rejection of God, and Catholics who are trying to follow their faith simply don’t do that. My personal opinion is that it is very hard for a practicing Catholic to commit a mortal sin (to have full knowledge and full consent). And if one does, one would presumably soon come to the point of having perfect contrition over it, and soon after would confess it.

This whole notion that a person can spend their life following Christ and then be sent to hell for eternity over what is essentially a slip is simply foreign to my understanding of God’s mercy. I think a sincere, practicing Catholic has to choose to reject God in a very deliberate manner, sort of like drinking a bottle of rat poison.

When I came back to the Catholic Church I thought I might be tormented the way you suggest, but I have found that not to be the case. As Scripture says, even the righteous man slips seven times. But is hell full of the righteous?

As to fear and misery, what of those who believe in OSAS and see others who seemed to be saved suddenly fall and then appear not to have been saved after all? How can an OSAS believer know, with perfect knowledge, that he is saved and not simply deceiving himself? That’s really no different than the Catholic situation. One hopes and trusts and tries to walk with Christ. At least Catholics have the examples of the saints to comfort them. How do Protestants know anybody is in heaven?


#11

Mostly a ditto of the above posts.

Walk around in terror? No. Faith, hope, and those other fruits help out when it comes to that. :slight_smile:

It’s at least in part a matter of accepting that God did not choose this method of salvation. It’s just how things had to be.


#12

There is a security of sorts…God is merciful. When I follow God’s commandments I am confident that He will do for me as he says he will. I take up my cross daily and submit to Him and He is faithful and just–that is my “security”. If I live as God commanded–He will do for me as he said he would.

"

To have a lifetime of service to God “erased” by one, or even a series, of some sin and die in that state…and go to hell?

God is not setting us up for failure. He is merciful. I assume even those that die suddenly are given some opportunity to come to Him. Possibly even in the moments just before death. God is a mystery–but He is also LOVE and MERCY and ultimately ALL GOOD.

. I’m really wanting to know how you guys deal with it, or if it’s even a problem for you.

It’s not a problem–it’s fact. WE CAN"T know the mind of God. But we can TRUST in him and feel confident and secure. There is peace in the TRUST.


#13

I say the suggested prayer used by those who believe in OSAS on a fairly regular basis and I recommend to my Catholic friends that they do the same. Not because I believe in OSAS, but because I believe that it is a good way of renewing ones Faith in Jesus and reminding ourselves to live like we are saved people. One question about OSAS always bothers me. How can an OSAS believer know, with perfect knowledge, that he is saved and not simply deceiving himself? I meet some who believe in OSAS who exhibit lives diametrically opposed to the Gospel; who exhibit in their life styles the fruits of the flesh as described in Galations and few if any fruits of the Spirit. Seems like OSAS is taken as a license to live a sin filled life with confidence that it doesn’t matter because after all they are saved. Anyway, I believe that the virtue of Hope, a gift of the Spirit, allows me to live without great fear and trembling and with a strong belief in God’s love and mercy. That apparently is insurance enough for me.


#14

[quote=Curious]…Do you that don’t subscribe to OSAS or at least some kind of ‘security’ walk around in fear and terror all the time?
[/quote]

NO I don’t. As a matter of fact I have great joy and peacefullness in my heart for I know that I believe what Jesus taught is true.

Come to think of it, I was reading in one of those countless Protestant Bibles about this dude named Cephas. I think his Aramaic name was Kephas and the Catholics refer to him as St. Peter. Anyway he walked around in ‘Hope’ for salvation. Hum?? I think he may have even wrote a book or two on the subject of ‘Hope’ for salvation?? Let me see, what are they called? Corinthians or something like that?

I also seem to remember some talk about guys like Judas, Satan and those pesky little fallen angels that lost their good ol’ OSAS.

I have to admit that I"ve often wondered what kind of misery it must be to have to live knowing that you’ll never know if you’ll make it.

As a Catholic(i.e. Devout Christian loyal to Jesus’ ORIGIONAL TEACHINGS) I don’t need to worry about that. Jesus promised me something if I followed Him. He will pass judgement on me based upon the works that prove my Faith.

That you’ve done the best you could and still have to say “I don’t know” if ever asked “where do you think you’ll go if you die.” To have a lifetime of service to God “erased” by one, or even a series, of some sin and die in that state…and go to hell?

God is a forgiving God. He came to forgive us and give us a chance, it’s called freewill. God came to save the sinners not the saved (I don’t know if the calvanists and other OSAS people fall into this category since they seem to save themselves BEFORE Jesus judges them? Why do we need Jesus if we save ourself?) We are all sinners and God is a forgiver, thats why He gave His Church, His body the Sacrement of Reconcilliation (Confession).

So please…don’t tell me I need to wake up and smell the sulphur burning, and don’t tell me all about the justice of God, and don’t give me one single verse or anything. I don’t want any of that.

What I want is for the non OSAS people to comment on if they’re ever scared to go to hell.

Like DUH! Thats why I stopped being Protestant and am now Catholic. Many Protestants are Christian too so don’t be mad, I just discovered that the Catholics were His Church and lost that wonderfull ignorance about believe or joining ever whim or fancy denomination without fear. When You discover the truth and follow Jesus you are bound to follow Him, even when it leads you to the last place on earth you thought it’d take you - HOME TO ROME!

What sin (mortal sin?) makes you scared?

Turning my back on Jesus, His body, His Catholic Church!:thumbsup:


#15

Hello everyone,

I am a little confused, who are the OSAS?

Sorry about that.

God Bless


#16

Good answers, good answers so far. That’s all I want - just people commenting on if there’s fear and blah blah…you know, my whole post. I’m going to copy/paste this whole thread. It’s something I’ve always wanted to know.

Keep em comin.


#17

I said it elsewhere, I’ll say it here. I am Catholic, but used to be OSAS Protestant. I can tell you that I am much more at peace now than I was then. Why?

As a OSAS believer, if you are a Christian, you will defenitely go to heaven. One might think that leads to peace. But it never did for me. When I sinned seriously, such a masturbation, I doubted whether I was a true Christian. Thus the doubts were still there, only worse. If I wasn’t a Christian, then what? I believed. I was baptized. What else could I do to become a Christian?

As a Catholic, if I sin mortally, all I have to do is repent and I objectively hear the words of absolution. Having been to confession, I know that I am a Christian and I know that I am forgiven. The sense of peace cannot be described to those who have never been inside the confessional and taken it seriously.

On situation leads to knowledge of being at peace with God. The other leads to doubts. The difference? One has objective means of determining their state of grace. The other is subjective.


#18

[quote=chb03c]Hello everyone,

I am a little confused, who are the OSAS?

Sorry about that.

God Bless
[/quote]

Who are the OSAS? Why, they are the people that take one line out of the bible, like say John 3:16, use it to justify their salvation, then simply throw away all the rest of it. I guess they just gloss over the part that says, by accepting Jesus as your personal savior, that you MIGHT know salvation. Ah, well… Details, Details. Don’t ever let the details get in the way.

God Bless!
NotWorthy


#19

[quote=chb03c]Hello everyone,

I am a little confused, who are the OSAS?

Sorry about that.

God Bless
[/quote]

Once Saved Always Saved…eternal security…once you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, you are destined to Heaven and there is nothing you can do to change that. You can rest assured that you are going to heaven, no matter how grave of a sin you commit, and no matter how many times it is committed, you got a one way ticket to Heaven :thumbsup:


#20

I don’t lose sleep. Sometimes I get a bit worried. But I think I’ve tried decently well not to sin, and I take my faith more seriously than most people my age. I don’t think I’ll be damned to Hell, but I think Purgatory is going to be home for a while. I don’t freak too much, really. At least some fear for salvation seems quite healthy to me, actually.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.