OSAS and the OT


#1

After doing a little digging, I noticed that there really is no counter part for OSAS in the OT.

Why is this important?
The Old is revealed in the New… I took a pole, and almost everyone seemed to agree that all aspects of the New can be found in some form in the Old…

If as claimed, OSAS is such a hugely important document, why does there not seem to be any reference to it in the Old Testament.

If the old is revealed in the New… Where is OSAS…

Furthermore, if it is in the OT, why haven’t Jews at any point in history worshiped anything close to it

To our Jewish Friends…
If I am misrepresenting you… Please let me know… I do not want to say you believe something you dont…

In Christ


#2

In 1 Corinthians 10:1-12, St. Paul summarizes the journey of the Israelites from their slavery in Egypt to the Promised Land. Though all were saved from Egyptian slavery, because of their subsequent immorality many fell in the desert and few of the saved actually entered the Promise Land. St. Paul warns Christians to learn from the example of these Israelites lest they fall.


#3

Eze 18 is a problem for osas too.


#4

What verse? I like to read it.


#5

21 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? 24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
This passage is a problem for protestants who believe a righteous person cant turn to sin (without repenting before death) and be dammed.

After doing a little digging, I noticed that there really is no counter part for OSAS in the OT.

This is a very good thread topic overall. :thumbsup:


#6

This was a good thread topic and caused me to think. There are some scriptures that are employed and I will bring up a couple of them…

Psalm 73:24 Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.

Ps 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

I struggled with the passage in Ezekiel as well. In the new testament, there are other more clear scriptures that seem to communicate OSAS…

Heb 3:14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

This shows that perseverance is an evidence of one that is Christ. This view comes from the “have become” in verse 14…what are your thoughts on this?

Another one I would like to bring up is this…

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

First, God foreknew, then predestined, called, justified, and then glorified. This is referred to as the Golden Chain of Salvation. I would be curious to find your thoughts on this as well.

Thanks.


#7

I think the one thing that you need to recognize is that this “righteous” person in Ezekiel 18 is likely to be the same “righteous” person in Luke 18…

Luke 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

This was an unjust man that justifies himself before men…Jesus referred to these “righteous” people as only from an outward appearance.

As well as in Luke 5:31-32:

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answered and said to them, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”


#8

I don’t see anything there that implies OSAS.

Ps 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Nothing here about OSAS; it talks about a man who is in the ways of the Lord, and that a man who walks in God’s ways will not be cast down. However, that does not imply that if he sins, he is still saved. It only shows us here that the Lord is upon those would do good (there iit is again, doing good) as opposed those who are wicked. See the surrounding verses about the wicked on this one–it is clear that if this righteous man, if he ceases to be righteous, shall be cast down. The OSAS test fails miserably here.

Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Nothing again about OSAS here; it only talks about the supreme truth that a man who is righteous shines forth.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

None here about OSAS as well; again, another truism for us–a just man, since he is just and his heart is with God, will rise again. However, it does not say here that if this same man falls into a wicked path, he is still redeemed. Nothing about OSAS there.

Heb 3:14 For we **have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

The operative part there, it is clear is the caveat, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end. This sheds perfect light to the previous passages above–if we hold fast to this assurance until the end…very clear indeed. OSAS is totally destroyed in this passage. Using this passage for OSAS is illogical, as it totally contradicts it.

Another one I would like to bring up is this…

Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

I often see God’s foreknowledge as this: He sees all the possible outcomes of each individual’s decisions. However, He still leaves a leeway for each person to make his own judgment and decision. This is where freewill comes in–that He would give each man that leeway to make his own decisions, and from those decisions and actions God would base His Judgment then (see the pertinent passages concerning Judgment on this one). So, this passage does not in any way contradict freewill, nor does it affirm OSAS.


#9

I guess I have to disagree with you here…it says -

Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Have become is a past tense - agreed? I think you would agree. Then it says - IF we hold fast - perseverance is shown as an evidence here and not a condition (although, only those who persevere will be saved). It is like saying, you have become smart, if you pass this test - Is passing the test the means of becoming smart. No. Being smart causes one to pass the test.

Your view cannot be correct here…let us look at the passage…it says that those whom he calls, he justifies - does that mean that everyone who hears the gospel call gets justified? No. It has to be an inward call of God - according to His purpose…

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

So, those that He foreknew (forethought/foreloved) - He predestinated to salvation…those who He predestined, He called - those He called, He justified. So the chain continues - it is an inward call that is effectual (it has to be if all of these people are justified and then glorified) and only takes place in those who God foreknew (forethought - foreloved)

You base salvation on the will of man…but Romans 9 specifically states…

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Not by our choice or works but by the election of grace…in accordance with His purpose (Rom 8:28b)


#10

Link I appreciate your comments…

Without using the NT, Can you definitively say that OSAS is in the OT. I know this sounds a little odd but as mentioned, if OSAS is such an overwhelmingly important theology, we should be able to use the OT only to provide enough scriptural support. As mentioned, nothing in the NT is not without some counter part in the OT, so asking it under this light is valid…

I have two questions for you…

  1. What is further OT support that clearly says OSAS
  2. Why have Jewish people never followed anything even remotely like it. I’ve talked to various Jewish friends both here and outside here. They will go father and say not only is there no counter part for OSAS, but there is no counter part for Faith Alone?

Anyway… not trying to be obnoxious… These are however very valid questions for me.

I Look forward to your response…

In Christ


#11

Have become is a past tense - agreed? I think you would agree. Then it says - IF we hold fast - perseverance is shown as an evidence here and not a condition (although, only those who persevere will be saved). It is like saying, you have become smart, if you pass this test - Is passing the test the means of becoming smart. No. Being smart causes one to pass the test.

No I don’t think it is. The past tense would be had become have is present.

I think this sentence will demonstrate

we have become the beast we so fervently fought against in the Revolutionary War.

I believe that the part of speech is the present perfect.

verb2verbe.com/conjugation/english-verb/become.aspx


#12

No. There is no basis for you to make that claim, in fact the context of each passage contradicts your claim.

Luke 18:10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 "The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: 'God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12 ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’

This was an unjust man that justifies himself before men…Jesus referred to these “righteous” people as only from an outward appearance.

It is clear from this passage the pharisee had no humility, he was never described as truly righteous.

As well as in Luke 5:31-32:

Luke 5:31 And Jesus answered and said to them, "It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
32 “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

In this case “righteous” is in reference to the self-righteous. We are all called to be righteous and the Bible even describes God fearing people as such.

Now lets compare Eze 1821 "But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? 24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.The context is very clear this is dealing with a real righteousness. In the first case the man turned from wicked to righteousness, the second case the man turned from his righteousness to what wicked men do. A truly wicked man becoming a truly righteous man, a truly righteous man becoming a truly wicked man.

Context exposes this passage very plainly:12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
Here Paul is talking to Christians. OSAS is totally destroyed here, especially in regard to the OT counterpart.

You cant explain away or brush off passages like these in favor of passages that you think indicate OSAS, all your doing is violence to the text. St Peter warned about such “twisting of the Scriptures to your own destruction” (2 Pt 3:16)

Its also worth pointing out other passages in Hebrews that indicate the same anti-OSAS message, for example Ch10:26 “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left but only a fearful expectation of judgment”

(continued…)


#13

(Continued 2 of 2)

Your view cannot be correct here…let us look at the passage…it says that those whom he calls, he justifies - does that mean that everyone who hears the gospel call gets justified? No. It has to be an inward call of God - according to His purpose…

No disagreement here.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Its worth pointing out this is directed at “those who love God” love is a two way street, the Christian must willingly display a love for God.
Second, regarding the “called” St Augustine points out in the parable of Matthew 22:1-14 it talks about God “calling” many to His banquet but they refused, for those who came some didnt pass a test and Jesus condemns them and concludes by saying “Many are called, few are chosen” the word for “called” which Jesus uses and Paul uses is the same Greek word.

So, those that He foreknew (forethought/foreloved) - He predestinated to salvation…those who He predestined, He called - those He called, He justified. So the chain continues - it is an inward call that is effectual (it has to be if all of these people are justified and then glorified) and only takes place in those who God foreknew (forethought - foreloved)

We dont deny this, anyone who is saved, God provided and planned everything for the saving to be done.
Catholics believe both Predestination and Free Will, it is a great mystery how they work together but they do. Just like other great mysteries of the faith (eg the Hypostatic Union) we cant deny one aspect entirely without disrupting the overall harmony of Scripture.

You base salvation on the will of man…but Romans 9 specifically states…

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Not by our choice or works but by the election of grace…in accordance with His purpose (Rom 8:28b)

Yes, we never deserved God’s grace, yet He chose to show mercy on us. We dont deny this.

Your problem however is that you pick and chose what parts of Scripture you want to believe and disregard the rest. It has been pointed out already, and beyond a doubt, that the concept of OSAS was foreign in the OT. Passages like 1 Cor 10:1-12 are sufficient enough to prove this.

Please consider the facts. The Catholic Church has put the best minds together over the centuries in regards to these questions and how to answer them.


#14

Actually it’s not; it’s, if I am correct, a present perfect tense (correct me if I’m wrong here, those who know better on grammar). But going beyond that, we must see what it says, and to wit, it says if we hold on to…. That in itself is shows there is a condition, if you will–we must hold on to, from beginning until the end. Whether it’s past or present perfect, the condition is still there–we must hold on to.

Your view cannot be correct here…let us look at the passage…it says that those whom he calls, he justifies - does that mean that everyone who hears the gospel call gets justified? No. It has to be an inward call of God - according to His purpose…

I don’t see any disagreement there–indeed, whom He calls, He justifies, and it is an inward calling. That being said, does it mean then that you’re saved once and for all after that calling? Common sense and human experience don’t say so, and we’ve seen people who were called and fell off.

So, those that He foreknew (forethought/foreloved) - He predestinated to salvation…those who He predestined, He called - those He called, He justified. So the chain continues - it is an inward call that is effectual (it has to be if all of these people are justified and then glorified) and only takes place in those who God foreknew (forethought - foreloved)

Now that is well and good, but it still doesn’t prove OSAS. Let us look at it much closer-- to make OSAS work, one would have to then say that from the beginning of time God already set each person’s destiny. This would be troublesome in light of the Judgment passages, for in effect there would be no need of Judgment, as God has already destined each man’s fate. In short then, God has already pre-judged each man. The Judgment passages would then be a contradiction to this. But we see that isn’t so. So what are we to make of this passage then? Precisely that–God knows all the possible outcomes that a man will make. Now, God would indeed call people to be just–it is still up to that person to respond to His calling. He gave us that much freewill, or else OSAS to work would then have to assume that we are mere pawns in a chessboard–something that is unacceptable even for many non-Catholic Christians.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

This is in consonance to Titus 3:5, and John 3:16. What is the underlying point here? That God, in His mercy, has caused our salvation. It is His love that moved Him to save us, not by anything that we did. So neither faith nor works did God save us, but because of that grace, which is His love. Nothing there, again, that indicates OSAS. One would have to isolate that verse and stretch it to say what it does not intend to say.


#15

I have considered all of the scriptures that you bring forward - trust me. I am not sure that you are fully regarding all of the scriptures that I would bring to the table either. But, anyway…I would like to add this one question.

Can God cause people to be saved and stay saved?


#16

Salvation works both ways–God can cause people to be saved, and stay saved, but man has to cooperate in the salvation process. God is powerful, but He also gave us the freewill to decide for ourselves whether or not we accept that salvation, or else hold on to that salvation. God does not force Himself on us, we are always fond of saying. So the answer here is both yes and no–God saves, but man must work with Him for that salvation to come through and through. It is a process–continuous, not a one-time event as OSAS proponents would like to think.


#17

So, what you are saying is that salvation completely relies on us…because, with God, we are saved no matter what…

Hebrews 7:25 KJV 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

1 Peter 1:5 KJV 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Philippians 1:6 KJV 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

But if we rely on self AND God…then, we are relying on ourselves. The truth is, that God states in Jeremiah 32:40…

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

It says plain and simple that they will not depart from Me. What does that mean?

I give you an example…

Look in Acts 27

A group of people including Paul are on a ship and in trouble…Here is what Paul says has been God’s decree…

Acts 27:21-25 KJV 21 But after long abstinence Paul stood forth in the midst of them, and said, Sirs, ye should have hearkened unto me, and not have loosed from Crete, and to have gained this harm and loss. 22 And now I exhort you to be of good cheer: for there shall be no loss of any man’s life among you, but of the ship. 23 For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve, 24 Saying, Fear not, Paul; thou must be brought before Caesar: and, lo, God hath given thee all them that sail with thee. 25 Wherefore, sirs, be of good cheer: for I believe God, that it shall be even as it was told me.

That is like the decree in 1 John 5:4 - You will be saved - I promise you…God is sovereign and has predestined this to occur. So, does that mean everyone just sits back and lets God do everything?? No, look what then happens…

Acts 27:30-31 KJV 30 And as the shipmen were about to flee out of the ship, when they had let down the boat into the sea, under colour as though they would have cast anchors out of the foreship, 31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved.

We have free will up until the moment that we could fall away completely and then God keep us…Jesus prays for us…Was Judas one who fell away and lost salvation? Or was he never saved to begin with…What does the book of John say?

John 13:17-18 KJV 17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. 18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Judas was not chosen…he was passed over and God let him face justice…ealrier it was told that the others were completely clean…not Judas…

John 13:8-10 KJV 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

What was the difference between Peter and Judas - when Peter fell away, He, forst of all was chosen…and because of that, he had someone praying for him…

Luke 22:31-32 NAS95 31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

We who are the elect, born of God…have that same prayer partner…

Hebrews 7:25 NAS95 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

1 John 2:1 NAS95 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

It is even mentioned that the elect cannot fall away through deception…

Matthew 24:24 NAS95 24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

(cont’d)


#18

(cont’d)

Salvation is all of God…You will find nobody in the Bible choosing Christ…It is Christ/God choosing them…Nobody can come to Christ/God except they are “dragged”

John 6:44 NAS95 44 "**No one can come to Me **unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Draw: or helko hel’-ko; probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively):–draw. Compare 1667.

To draw or drag off…nobody comes to Christ except God give an effectual inward call…then then rest is promised…justification and glorification…

Romans 8:30 NAS95 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

It is guaranteed for the Christian - the one who has been born again. Would you ever say this to anyone…

Acts 16:30-31 NAS95 30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

I dare say you would not…you would tell them they need to do this and that and this and that to stay saved or to gain salvation…whereas I would say do this, do that, do this, do that because you are saved - we love Him because He first loved us.

It is not of Him that willeth or him that runneth but God that showeth mercy. He chose us - we did not shoose Him. Yes, we participate in our sanctification … but…

Psalms 37:24 KJV 24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.


#19

The Holy Bible RSV Compare to NAB
Philippians Chapter 2

Chapter 2

3* Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. …12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence,*** work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;*** 13* for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
©

1 Peter Chapter 5

Chapter 5

1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. 2 Tend the flock of God that is your charge, * not by constraint but willingly, * not for shameful gain but eagerly, 3 not as domineering over those in your charge but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd is manifested you will obtain the unfading crown of glory. 5* Likewise you that are younger be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you. 7* Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you.*** 8 Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, and strengthen * you. 11 To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen. ***
©

Hebrews Chapter 4

Chapter 4

1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it. 2 For good news came to us just as to them; but the message which they heard did not benefit them, because it did not meet with faith in the hearers. * 3* For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall never enter my rest,” although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4* For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way, “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5* And again in this place he said, “They shall never enter my rest.” ***6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, ***©

:shrug:


#20

The Holy Bible RSV Compare to NAB
2 Peter Chapter 2

Chapter 2

1* But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words; from of old their condemnation has not been idle, and their destruction has not been asleep.
4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell * and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment; 5* if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven other persons, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6* if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly; 7* and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the wicked 8 (for by what that righteous man saw and heard as he lived among them, he was vexed in his righteous soul day after day with their lawless deeds), 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.
Bold and wilful, they are not afraid to revile the glorious ones, 11 whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not pronounce a reviling judgment upon them before the Lord. 12 But these, like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and killed, reviling in matters of which they are ignorant, will be destroyed in the same destruction with them, 13 suffering wrong for their wrongdoing. They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation, * carousing with you. 14 They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15* Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, 16* but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb *** spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
17 These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved. 18 For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.*** 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22* It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. ***
©

:shrug:


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