OSAS/Eternal Security vs Revelation 3:5

Baptism – Ephesians 2:8 & 9 '-- Not to be seen as a ‘good work’ Unto salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God through Jesus Christ. God’s grace IS sufficient – God doesn’t need any help from Us in our salvation.

As for translating God’s Word from what was Originally Hebrew/ Greek. No one seems to have a ‘problem’ with the translating from those original languages to the Latin Volgate. And That was the primary language for How Many years. And at some point God’s Word was translated into German and English, etc.

Each language has it’s own alphabet – no two are the same – So when translating from one language to another – there will be times when there is no word in the ‘new’ language that coincides with the ‘old’ language. And most languages have their ‘local idiums’ For instance we use phrases like ‘it’s raining cats and dogs outside’. We know we don’t mean literal cats and dogs are coming down from the sky. But we Do mean it’s raining really hard / fast. So we try to explain what we Really mean to someone trying to learn English. Many years ago I Was trying to help people of another language learn English / improve their English. It was an Interesting experience. So a questian gets asked 'why don’t you just say what you mean?" Good point.
But, as was mentioned - in the process of translating Any literature from one language to another – the translator takes the word / words that come the very closest possible in the context – and grammatical structure / tenses of words, etc.
And people CAN learn the Greek/ Hebrew if they choose to. My husband and brother-in-law Both took Greek in college.
And a person can get that on Internet, too. And learning about the cultural setting of books in Scripture. But all of that isn’t essential for being able to understand what our own Bible’s say. That’s why translators Do take time to get God’s Word into all sorts of languages. It doesn’t need to be foreign to Anyone.

Revelation 3:5 Is saying “I will Not blot out his name” Sounds like You are 'qualifying ’ that statement by suggesting that God Could blot a name out. And That would suggest that a person needs to be continually on his ‘guard’ about his actions. Why not be living a daily life For God and Not be living in a state of ‘fear’ / God’s Word tells that 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." We Can know that we have eternal life through Jesus Christ’s gift of salvation. He knows the intents / thoughts of our heart. He knows the heart that is rebellious and the one that is seeking to live a Godly life. What a person is in their Heart Will be lived out in their life.

You know, you’re not the first person to offer us this position. In fact, faithful Catholics have no problem at all with what Ephesians 2:8 & 9 actually says, but we have to disagree with the modern interpretations of men that misleads people about salvation. I offer my perspective on this in Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

We all know that God needs no help from us, but what you mean and what we mean are two different things. If you are correct, then why does Our Blessed Lord very specifically tell us things like
***John 14: 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments…"

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Matthew 25:31-46*** (Excerpt) `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’

How do you reconcile these passages (and there are others as well) with your own?
As for translating God’s Word from what was Originally Hebrew/ Greek. No one seems to have a ‘problem’ with the translating from those original languages to the Latin Volgate. And That was the primary language for How Many years. And at some point God’s Word was translated into German and English, etc.

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Revelation 3:5 Is saying “I will Not blot out his name” Sounds like You are 'qualifying ’ that statement by suggesting that God Could blot a name out. And That would suggest that a person needs to be continually on his ‘guard’ about his actions.

Perhaps because the Word of God tells us to when St. Peter wrote, “8] Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour.” (1st Peter 5:8)

Why not be living a daily life For God and Not be living in a state of ‘fear’ / God’s Word tells that 'If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Who said anything about living in fear. Faithful Catholics have every confidence in God’s mercy and love for us as we follow Him.
See

[LIST]
*]Assurance of Salvation?
*]Grace: What It Is and What It Does
[/LIST]
And we love the fact that we have the wonderful sacrament of Confession which is far more scriptural than your own position.

Further reading: Once Saved, Always Saved by John Martignoni

Even back when I was a Southern Baptist, I found it curious that Sacred Scripture contains several references to the blotting out of names, but no references (that I can remember) to the actual writing down of names. I may be over-simplifying (I tend to do that), but it almost sounds like everyone’s name is on the list until death, and then depending on one’s spiritual condition, the name can be kept or blotted out.

For me, what writes “finis” to the OSAS doctrine is Jesus’ statement that “he who endured to the end shall be saved.”

Two things always strike me about this conversation.

(1) This is just as much a debate between Protestants themselves as between Evangelicals and Catholics. Check here.

(2) Despite all the rhetoric like these statements taken together–“Salvation is a free gift from God through Jesus Christ. God’s grace IS sufficient – God doesn’t need any help from Us in our salvation.”–no denomination really thinks Jesus’ work of salvation is absolutely self-sufficient and all-sufficient. Such would mean we wouldn’t even need to know about it let alone do anything. They all admit we must do something: reform our lives and believe in the gospel. IOW If Jesus’ sacrifice is all-sufficient salvation and nothing more is needed, then claiming we have to trust in its sufficiency for our salvation is also adding something more.

The fact is Jesus sacrifice is all-sufficient to save us by the means He chose. We all hold this. Prots hold that the means is to trust in its sufficiency for our salvation. RCs hold it is faith which includes belief in all of the teaching of Jesus, i.e., including His moral teaching.

A great example is Matt Slick who despite all the similar rhetoric to that above in an article How to Become a Christian still asks “What must you do?” bold mine.

Oh, and the “fear” thing is totally bogus too. I know if I die now, I’ll go to heaven. I also know that if I sin, God Who actively pursues my salvation will grant me the grace of repentance. Really it looks like one has to deny the evident fact of their freedom to buy OSAS.

Where the protestant argument falls apart for me is when they claim salvation is a free gift from God. If that’s then everyone is saved. But then they claim no you must “.accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior”. Now if true and you aren’t saved unless you “accept” Jesus then salvation is contingent upon the persons acceptance and Jesus free gift of dying on the cross for our sins. I have yet to get a suitable explanation for this dilemma in which protestant places themselves.

They explain it by saying that in order for a gift to be efficacious, it must be received by the giftee. If the gift is not accepted/received, then it provided no benefit.

And I agree with that but then that can only mean our salvation is contingent upon the acceptance of the gift. Is that really what protestants intend to preach?

That sums it up, yes.

“God doesn’t need any help from Us in our salvation.”

I agree with that as it stands. He dosen’t need our help to do anything. If he did he would not be almighty.

Just as he dosen’t need our help to make a person breath, or eat.
But if we don’t use what God gave us to breath and eat, what will happen? Would saying, “God doesn’t need any help from me” solve this? But isn’t it still true to say that God does not need any help from me.

If that is the case, that would mean Faith Alone falls flat on it’s face, and I’m sure we all know non-Catholics who will fight you to the death that this is not the case.

Then its not Jesus dying on the cross that saves but rather the decision of the individual to accept the gift that actually saves.

Yes we all know those folks but as you stated their argument falls flat on its face

No, not at all.

In the study of logic there are many types of “causes.” I don’t have them all at my mental fingertips, but one of them is “efficient cause,” and if you google that, you’ll eventually find a list.

In this line of theology the death of Jesus on the cross is one “cause” of salvation, and the person’s acceptance of Christ as Savior is another type of cause. By way of analogy, there are two causes for the fact that an electric light is shining over my head right now. One is the fact that electric power is being generated at a power station somewhere in the state of Alabama, and the other is the fact that I tripped the light switch before I sat down.

But in either case, the “user” has to do something. Either you have to flip a switch or accept Jesus. It seems to me that doing something is a built in part of faith, which is why faith alone can’t stand.

Yes, exactly. I would like to point out that I do not believe in sola fidei, but I did live in that culture for a number of years, and I remember and am repeating (in answer to questions) the arguments that were used in its favor.

We are supposed to have a reasonable assurance, based on the goodness, mercy, and trustworthiness of God together with evidence of fruit in our lives. Here’s the approach Trent would have us take on assurance of salvation. Assurance is OK; over-confidence reveals a lack of humility.

**CHAPTER IX.
Against the vain confidence of Heretics.
But, although it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted, nor ever were remitted save gratuitously by the mercy of God for Christ’s sake; yet is it not to be said, that sins are forgiven, or have been forgiven, to any one who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, and rests on that alone; seeing that it may exist, yea does in our day exist, amongst heretics and schismatics; and with great vehemence is this vain confidence, and one alien from all godliness, preached up in opposition to the Catholic Church. But neither [Page 37] is this to be asserted,-that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubting whatever, settle within themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified, but he that believes for certain that he is absolved and justified; and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone: as though whoso has not this belief, doubts of the promises of God, and of the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ. For even as no pious person ought to doubt of the mercy of God, of the merit of Christ, and of the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, even so each one, when he regards himself, and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension touching his own grace; seeing that no one can know with a certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.

CANON XVI.-If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema.
**

And I was merely pointing out that the logic employed by protestants to defend OSAS is significantly flawed

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