Other People's Children


A non Catholic friend of mine has always been consistent about keeping to his own business. He went with a lady twenty years back when we were in our twenties and decided he did not have a future with her. She went out of town, got pregnant, and brought the baby back as if he should raise it as his own. His own life had already in that short time apart took on dimensions regarding graduate education and business. These were the very reason he decided not to have a family, Then this lady finds a substance abuser to give her a child and basically place her on welfare. To conclude this part of the story he did give her some substantial amounts of money and made contact with social agencies. But he was clear as he was before that he had ended their relationship. Especially because he did not want children.

Now his issue with children is his basically nice townhouse neighborhood where families are breaking the law and placing way too many children in the units. Crime has gone up, property values have gone down. It raises a question I told him I would ask. It is obvious any housing unit has a safety limit for occupancy. Now we no the Church tells us certain laws are wrong. That is understood. What is the Position something such as having too many children per bed room? Such codes exist in most American cities. Certainly they have a bearing on something such as fire safety.

So should a family keep having children knowing it can’t afford a bigger place and openly break the civil codes?



Bait. Not biting.


I’m not sure of the purpose of all the background information you provided when all you are asking about is a regulatory infraction.

And the answer it would seem is that it is a matter for the landlord to address, not Mrs., or in this case, Mr. Krachet (for those of you too young to get the reference–it means the nosy neighbor who makes everyone else’s oversights his business.)



I am SOOOOOO old that I get this…


The units he lives in are not designed for a lot of children. That I should have added as part of the first part of why he decided to remain single, only to try to have someone make him feel guilty about her subsequent mistake. He helped her but did not marry her. That is why the first part. If he had a family there his hand would have forced him out of school. He chose school.

This “regulatory” matter is potentially a bigger deal. His business, his whole life has been caught up in following the rules. I think we can assume the rules at least have safety reasons behind them as regards fire, ambulance response etc. police patrols.

Then there are the increasing murders, armed robberies. He had ti install an expensive camera system.

I imagine a lot of you think people are simple getting worse. However, shouldn’t public schools, fire departments, and police departments have a word on the, this is key FAILURE to enforce written codes. There my be a depopulation problem in parts of the world. However, in my metropolitan area I doubt this is the case. In the Baltimore Washington area don’t expect to readily make a jump from housing two children two three or four. Even in this real estate down turn-houses for families that size are costly mansions.

I say all this because I know there is a lot of rejoicing at children and especially big families. I see nothing wrong with that as long as they are properly and by that I mean legally housed. Places that fill with rats and burn easily were yesterdays family homes pushed past their limit.



Honestly not sure what this has to do with the church.

What is it your friend is asking CAF to figure out for him?


Kravitz, Kravits! Mrs. Kravitz! The other one is Tiny Tim’s family from Dickens’ A Christmas Carol.

“Abner, Abner…”

I still don’t understand your question, OP.


Some groups, Mormons, and of course Catholics. advocate bigger families. My friend doesn’t care about such choices as long as the housing is legal. My earlier preface, probably misplaced was to show he chose to be single and build a business. Many of the problems of overcrowding, especially crime threaten his living, I added that violating these codes eventually create slums. I think social justice worries are a very Catholic issue. No one does a favor to stuff a house or apartment past the cited codes to build a slum.



As far as I know, those codes have exceptions in them for a biologically related single family, no matter how many children. The codes are meant to keep multiple families or large unrelated groups from taking up residence together in the same unit.

Basically, a mom and dad having their own children can use their discretion as to how many kids can live in one bedroom. But a group of friends sharing an apartment, or a group of siblings, each with their own family, all trying to squeeze into one unit, breaks the codes.


do you know of a law that limits the number of people in a unit or are you looking for one? just because your friend choose the single life doesn’t give him the right to say other people are breaking “laws” by having too many children.

if the children or adults are committing a crime then call the police, otherwise live and let live.


I don’t think the amount of children matters as much as people trying to squeeze as many friends in as possible…And people would probably try to find somewhere bigger if they had a lot of children, or were planning to have a lot of children…


I am deeply saddened that that OP, who appears to be posting a baiting thread, makes the absolute association with large families being the source of crime. It is not inly insupportable, it is despicable.

I have other feelings regarding this attitude, however, I will not post insulting or uncharitable comments.

I suggest people unsubscribe from this thread. The OP is just trying to bait you into defending larger families by accusing people who have children as fostering criminal behavior. Such an attitude does not dignify attention.


My point was overtaxed and unsafe resources help run real estate down and really are a threat. Name it ambulance and police response, classroom rations in publics schools, assuming people who can’t afford five bedroom homes can’t afford Catholic school either.

By the way my friend has a neighbors who calls the police for some of the assaults and property destruction. So having someone smack his neighbor or the neighbors kid throw a rock to smash your window seems to have less interest for the police as they have to deal with the murders and other hardcore crimes. It is not so much big families that are an issue as squeezing too many people. children and grown ups, into areas never designed for the amount of people that are pouring into an area.



Abbbbbbbbbbneeeeer! :rotfl:


Ha ha I didn’t even see your response when I posted mine!!!



It seems some of you want it two ways saying I am anti big family

Others say let housing codes be enforced.I could hardly be both.
Show me a big city area where endless amounts of people , children or other wise are tolerated in a given dwelling. I say enforce the codes and that means families will be evicted. I have seen this personally two ways. I worked on a real estate site that limited family occupancy. Are those who are bending my meaning suggest that families stuff a house or apartment until the sheriiff drags the family offending away?

I taught school in an area that went from nice to just what I am talking about in twelve years in terms of decay.It makes a big difference to have twenty five kids in a class versus thirty eight I have seen what overtaxed over burdened factors do to turn what was promising into s slum. with about a murder a month. It is a chicken and the egg argument. With more resources these places would be more sustainable. However, no one wants to pay tax for anything anymore. It is too bad there tolerance for population is so fragile. I mentioned my one friend because the phenomena is taking off like a rocket. Another friend has a quasi mansion when family friendly homes need to be built. I come from a six person family and love everyone in it. Furthermore, our economic and housing circumstances declined. I know the struggles families can have.

Perhaps the codes should mandate more affordable housing. I mean look at all those mansions sitting empty while families need homes.



Let me guess…the real reason why this guy is upset is because Latinos are moving into his neighborhood…and the overpopulation argument is a way of masking his true complaint?

Maybe this is a presumptuous thing to assume, but your posts sound like they were copied straight from the talking points of the local anti-immigrant groups. (From your post, I see that you live in the same metro area as me.)


And I still fail to see a question from the OP. I still have no idea what is being asked -or is it simply a rant? What does the OP want answered?

Why must neighbors be so nosey? Are the neighbors in question - ya know, the family with all the kids, causing damage to the property? Are the kids disrupting the hood? Are the police being called to visit the family on a regular basis?

The OP’s friend does have the option to move if he is unhappy with all the surrounding kids. But sometimes it is just so much sweeter to complain.:confused:


And I am clearly old enough (or overcommitted enough) for my brain to be turning to swiss cheese! Thanks for clearing this up!! (At least some of us are having some fun on this thread!!


Hon, if you actually research the history of migration from cities to suburbs to cities to suburbs to cities to suburbs (you get my point) you will see that like most things, it’s in waves. The crime areas are in waves. When a poorer population moves to better themselves, the more well-off population usually migrates either to further suburbs or back to cities. In Chicagoland this has been the case. Neighborhoods that were 100% unsafe even five years ago are yuppieville USA today and neighborhoods that were yuppieville are dangerous now and it has been like that for years. Are there some neighborhoods that stay the same? Yes, but don’t blame taxation policies, blame administrators and politicians and beauracrats for their mismanagement. Guess what, many of them, while not admitting to it, want to keep the poor poor but feed them lipservice so as to keep themselves in power. We have many politicians who REFUSE to allow parents to have a choice for their child’s education via vouchers or tax credits. This includes the poorest of the poor, so, because of Teachers Unions fear of competition children ARE left behind and therefore the poorly educated system continues.

There was an article the other day in the Chicago Tribune about Bill Cosby and his talks about parents acting like parents and doing their jobs. Don’t blame crime on the number of children in a family, blame it on lack of parenting, on the monster “me” society that we have made for ourselves, on sin. If your “friend’s” property was damaged then he’s an idiot for not reporting. But to solely blame it on large families living in what you deem small homes because they’re no McMansions, then you my dear do not seem to understand.

You complain that your family’s quality of life decreased as more children were born. If quality of life means you didn’t have all the lattest “things” that you actually had to use your imagination and be creative, you should THANK GOD!!! So many kids don’t know how to do that today, they don’t know how to be bored because their parents are afraid to be “bad” parents. Boredom is a part of life, the sooner children learn that, the better. Not getting everything you want is a part of life, the sooner a child learns that the better.

My younger sister and brother grew up with EVERYTHING given to them (except the true love they needed and deserved) and you know what? they are beyond miserable to be around and forget down time, if they have to actually have down time (a.k.a. boredom) well they become nasty and extremely moody. What kind of quality of life is that? They were deprived of what many children are deprived of today, love, attention, and boredom because they were always on the go with their hockey, horses, music, dance, lacrosse, camps, parties, etc. My dad and step-mom tried to give them everything but forgot about down time to just be with the family without places to go (and imho, that is not a loving thing to do and not meeting a child’s needs).

So, if you want crime and education to be solved, it starts with the family stepping up and the parents acting and being parents (which includes knowing your children’s friends, being involved in their education process, being involved in their lives and actually having family activies and down time away from the rest of the world). Then proceed to those who are in charge and allow parents options to educate their children, make the public school teachers actually feel the heat that they may have to downsize because parents feel they aren’t living up to the parent’s expectations of a proper education of the students.

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