Our Lady of Guadalupe: The Mexican Mary?

Our Lady of Guadalupe: The Mexican Mary?

[LEFT]I’ve noticed that leading up to the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, American Catholic Churches in neighborhood that have turned Hispanic basically push the crucifix in a dark corner of these churches and worship the Mexican Mary. It is an outrage to American Catholics and an insult to Jesus.

The Feast of the Immaculate Conception was basically overshadowed by the set that was built to perform a play near the altar.

My church becomes an third world carnival every December 12th with the area near the altar covered with a huge portrait of Our Lady of Guadalupe and a set that will later have a play about her. It is not that we don’t have a social center for that very thing but the Mexicans basically take over the church and tell the pastor what to do.

During this “celebration”, people dressed up as Aztec indians will run up and down the aisles of the church, banging on drums while marichi music is blaring so loud a person can’t even think. It is a disgraceful display and most American Catholics in my church are upset about this. A Catholic Church is for the worship of God and not to be used as a political device to appease the Church of Mexico.
[/LEFT]

Is your problem with Mary or Mexicans.

MumboJumbo,

I’m Hispanic–Mexican-American actually. I don’t have a problem with the feast day dedicated to our Lady as designated by the Church.

I do have a problem with:
[LIST]
*]Aztec dancing in the aisles

*]Blaring mariachi music

*]The noisy affair this particular Mass turns into
[/LIST]

I disagree that this celebration is a political device to appeal to the Catholic Church in Mexico. I can only speculate that this Feast day appeals to Hispanics the way it does because of Mary’s impact not just on the spiritual life of Mexico but on that country’s culture.

I never was one to support the idea that the Mass must take into account the cultural and sociological needs of the faithful. Put it another way:

If in a Polish community, don’t necessarily make the liturgical music fit into the polka style just because the worshipers are Polish. I am a Mexican American. I do not need to have a portrait of Our Lady of Guadalupe automatically located in the sanctuary, I do not want mariachi music for the Mass just because I am bilingual.

I’m sure there is a way to faithfully celebrate the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe without turning the Mass into a three-ring circus or a variety hour.

Joe

What a shame to take such a great feast and make a circus out of it. I love the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Aside from the fact that Mexicans do indeed have a lot to celebrate with respect to this feast, Our Lady of Guadalupe is the mother of ALL the Americas, North, South and Central. There are two problems happening in your church, that have NOTHING to do with the great feast, or with the Mexican culture in your parish:

[LIST]
*]The Sanctuary MUST ALWAYS have the crucifix as front and center of all focus.
*]The pastor in your parish (and in many American parishes) have little backbone to take a stand and draw the line on any extraordinary practices or excessive effusions in both the Liturgical Space, the Church, and in the Liturgy
[/LIST]

i live in mexico, and last night we had, the mañanitas to the Our Lady, and i feel sad that you feel the mass was turned into a “third word carnival”, because is not. Those Aztec dancers you are talking about are called matachines, and they dance, BEFORE and AFTER the mass, not during, and they do it to honor Our Lady, it have been done for 500 years, and its approved by the Church.

As fos the mariachi, i have never seen a mass like that, i know they exist but that’s it.

And how can Jesus be offended if we honor his mother?

Our Lady of Guadalupe is honored in a lot of countries not just Mexico

i’m sorry if offend someone but english is not my first language and i’m a little rusty.

and i do feel a little offended we you call our celebration a third word carnival, i find that an insult to mexicans, but maybe i misunderstood your words, if that is so, i’m sorry

Rosy,
I am not Mexican or hispanic. I don’t speak Spanish. I was offended also by the language and the insinuation that the feast is political or a carnival. There might have been liturgical abuses in some parishes for this feast, but that happens often these days and it has nothing to do with one or another particular feastday. In general the problem lies in losing understanding of the meaning of the Mass.

Someday I hope to go to Mexico and see the celebration.

Sounds to me like you have more problems with Mexicans then anything else, but the Church is for sinners, the Saints are already in Heaven.

First I feel offended by your comments as you are obviously not educated in the story of Guadalupe or the Mexican culture (which is fine), but don’t go out speaking things your not educated in because it makes you look ignorant. As the other poster states, the dance happens before or after the mass and it’s in honor to our Blessed Mother. Second, do you realize that this is the only image of our Blessed Mother that was literally given to us by her! It’s no painting or some other forgery, this is an actual miralcle that all of us get to see and not just read about in a book or see in a movie. If you read the story you will actually know how everything happened for a reason, from the image to the position of the stars on her vail.

I agree that some people could get carried away and I agree that the crucifix should never have been removed, if this has happened in your Church, gather people and go talk to the priest, that’s why God gave you a mouth and a brain.
God bless and please we are all children of God, in the end it wont matter what country you are from it’s where your soul end up for eternity, I highly doubt there is room for discrimination in Heaven. :slight_smile:

Wow, what an awful post. Funny this is in the moral theology section. What…do you have a problem with the Black Madonna from Poland, Our Lady of Lourdes or Our Lady of Kibeho too? Mary is the same everywhere. You thought she was American?? Haha.

Saying that a church is a " third world carnival" is more insulting to Jesus than temporarily moving a crucifix.

I think that there is a little cultural fear out there. I have even heard that the feast day of our lady of guadalupe will eventually be a bigger holiday than St. Patricks Day! It is hard to imagine but it is possible due to the number of Hispanics of mexican descent in the US. Just imagine the effect that Our lady had on the Nahuatl natives that brought about the conversion of an entire country. If that isn’t the Holy Spirit at work I don’t know what is. Even today Mexico and South America for that matter is over 90% catholic. Remember the ancient Mexicans were Indian and spoke a language that is mostly gone now. During the conquest of Spain and Hernan Cortez did Catholicism and Spanish language come into being. I think this post is a purely cultural issue and it is foreign to some of us to see how other nationalities celebrate. They are totally dedicated to christ but they were converted by Our Lady and they celebrate this debt of gratitude.

Patrick would be very well pleased.

I am so glad to see many Catholics open to other cultures, let’s pray for those who are closed minded that they even close their hearts to Jesus.

We are universal after all.

Even today Mexico and South America for that matter is over 90% catholic.

Going by your own statistic that 90% of Mexicans are Catholic, they must know that to miss a Mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. Then why did my church have to close it’s school that had been in operation for more than 80 years? Low attendence at Catholic Churches in Hispanic neighborhoods is the number one reason the Catholic Church in America is failing. Check your statistics more carefully and you will see I am right.

But the truth will set you free, even if the truth is ugly.

Now you are blaming Hispanics for why the Catholic Church fails in America? This is going to be a very interesting thread :popcorn:

That makes no sence what so ever. What happen to the rest of the “American” congregation? Where are they? Why did they leave their parish? You are blaming Mexicans for the failure of the Church? Wow talk about arrogance. The Church in the west is at a “lost” stage, due to poor education in the Faith. We get watered down theology at RCIA and CCD classes. Students in Catholic schools are comming out athiest or budhist instead of comming out more Catholic then when they went in. Look at those statistics! Sir, I would recommend you read a book and then go to confession and ask God for offending another race and offending His mother! I will pray for you and God bless.

By the way God’s Truth isn’t ugly, but your truth may be.

I guess somebody didn’t read the Pew Research data. 10 percent of Americans are ex-Catholics and if it wasn’t for immigration, the Catholic Church in the United States would practically be non-existant. If you don’t like people from third world countries, then maybe you shouldn’t be a Catholic since they are the ones who make up the bulk of the Church and are the most faithful to God amidst poverty.

Really? Because I thought it was the rampant secularism that had taken root among American Catholics since the advent of Americanism in the late 1800s. Maybe I am incorrect though :shrug:

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