Padre Pio...and the Novus Ordo

S.H.J. A.M.D.G. B.V.M.

  •                                 J.M.J.                                     +
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Here is a question for an educated person (unlike me ;*)…

What did Padre Pio think of the Novus Ordo?..Did he follow the Novus Ordo and his superiors or did he refuse to say that particular Mass?

Many thanks!

He died before the final reforms of Paul VI (he died in 1968, Missale Romanum was issued in 1969)

As you can see here, he did celebrate Mass facing the people using some of the earlier post-Concillar reformed liturgical texts:

youtube.com/watch?v=dlT9qwmzE7U (Part I)

youtube.com/watch?v=QX15Hk3gM9c (Part II)

He was dead long before it came about, so I doubt he had much of an opinion about it at least in any way that we could understand.

St. Pio was very obedient and I’m sure he would have accepted the New Mass. There was a time when he was forbidden by the Pope from saying public Masses and hearing confessions. He was greatly saddened, but he obeyed and did not continue his public ministry until the Pope gave him permission to do so.

S.H.J. A.M.D.G. B.V.M.

  •                                      J.M.J.                                 +
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Thanks for all of your thoughts…

I have read that he urged his sister, a nun who was distressed by the changes, to submit in obedience.

Padre Pio was very distressed at the changes coming from Vatican II. When a delegation from Rome visited him he pleaded with them, “to end this Council.” Padre Pio also
sought permission to continue to say the Traditional Latin Mass. He would not have approved of lay ministers, Protestant style hymns, etc.

I don't remember where I read this, but I read that he celebrated the new mass at the time as the public mass, but for private mass he celebrated the low-TLM. I am not sure if this is face, and I wish I could find the source for it.

He would not have had to permission for such a thing as priests over a certain age were not required to celebrate the OF and were allowed to continue to celebrate the EF.

Since died 1968, before the New Mass was even introduced I somehow doubt that he ever celebrated it. Nor could he have done so. He may have celebrated the interim Mass that existed between the end of the Council and the introduction of the New Mass but that pure subjecture. If it is of any importance the last Mass he celebrated was a Solemn High Mass in the Traditional fashion. Due to illness he had requested to celebrate a Low Mass instead, however that request was refused.

Saint Padre Pio was a very orthodox and traditional priest who was truly alarmed at the changes taking place within the Church. When advised that the Franciscan Order for instance was changing some of their rules because the new members did not like the old ways of dress and rules he asked if they were doing a favor for the order by joining it or was joing the order an honor and priviliege for them. He would often avail himself for confessions up to eight hours a day, yet would not hear confessions from people, both men and women who he saw as being dressed immodestly and is known to have chased both sexes from the Church on occasion for not arriving in a modest state of dress.

There are pictures floating around which seem to show the Saint celebrating Mass facing the people. However, many of these photos have been cropped and photoshopped and when seen in their natural state and entirity show that what appeard to be examples of celebrating the New Mass are in fact photos of him distributing Holy Communion. When celebrating certain Masses there were indeed people behind him, due to the locale of the Mass itself, but he himself always faced the Altar and the Crucifix.

I think it is safe to say that this highly orthodox and traditional priest never celebrated the New Mass.

He may not of had to request it but he did. Of that there is ample evidence if you care to look for it.

As you pointed out, he died before the Missal was promulgated, so that’s like saying – I think it’s safe to say that Saint John Vianney never celebrated the Mass of Paul VI. The word ‘duh’ comes to mind. :wink:

On this forum you cannot assume that anyone reads anything in the post but merely picks and chooses what he will or will not see.

Repeating information, while a tad boring and yes, even juvenile, is often the best way to get the point across, but even that does not work at times.

While it may be apparent to you and others it is equally unapparent, apparently to others. So duh really doesn’t come to mind.:slight_smile:

Fair enough.

So, just to repeat and be redundant – Saint Pio of Pietrelcina was a holy and obedient man who would never question the Church’s authority over the Liturgy.

Of course he wouldn’t. On the other hand, he asked that he himself not be a part of the experiment and received a dispensation in order to continue with the traditional Mass.

Weren’t old priests at that time routinely given dispensations to continue celebrating the TLM?

The so called old liturgy is the true liturgy. Part of the third secret of fatima contains elements critical of changes in the liturgy and “an evil Council.” Padre Pio was
psychically attune to this. He objected to the Protestant version of the changed Mass, as did many priests. Quite many of them were NOT old. You make it sound like only old and irrelevant Catholics objected to the Novus Ordo Protestant Mass. Padre Pio exclaimed, “STOP this COUNCIL!” And Pope John XXIII, on his deathbed, regretted calling the Council. Read Michael Davies’ book, Pope John’s Council. Many YOUNG priests today object to the Protestant Novus Ordo Mass–it is not a question of old or young, but dangerous changes in the liturgy that were forced on the Council by a group of Dutch and German bishops–the Rhine group–who conned Pope Paul VI. Also, American bishops took drastic liberties after the Council, over the objections of the Pope, and allowed for communion in hand and altar girls–all forbidden by the Pope. You need to study this.

Yes they were.

[quote="Judefrancis, post:17, topic:84491"]
The so called old liturgy is the true liturgy. Part of the third secret of fatima contains elements critical of changes in the liturgy and "an evil Council." Padre Pio was
psychically attune to this. He objected to the Protestant version of the changed Mass, as did many priests. Quite many of them were NOT old. You make it sound like only old and irrelevant Catholics objected to the Novus Ordo Protestant Mass. Padre Pio exclaimed, "STOP this COUNCIL!" And Pope John XXIII, on his deathbed, regretted calling the Council. Read Michael Davies' book, Pope John's Council. Many YOUNG priests today object to the Protestant Novus Ordo Mass--it is not a question of old or young, but dangerous changes in the liturgy that were forced on the Council by a group of Dutch and German bishops--the Rhine group--who conned Pope Paul VI. Also, American bishops took drastic liberties after the Council, over the objections of the Pope, and allowed for communion in hand and altar girls--all forbidden by the Pope. You need to study this.

[/quote]

Not the Third Secret put out by the Church and attested to by Sr Lucia.

Also if Padre Pio did say "Stop the Council" I would like to see some proof of this. So far all I have seen is users who are against Vatican II make this claim with no supporting evidence.

The Ordinary Form of the Mass is not protestant, it is one of the two forms of the one rite of Mass for the Latin Catholic Church, so says the Pope.

I know that they could be granted dispensation but rather or not that was by decree for all or by personal request I don;t know.

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