my friend keeps telling me that on the chalices we use at mass, we have pagan symbols all around them… the people at my friends church keep telling him this…what could i say to him so he doesnt bother me anymore ??? god bless
It would be useful if you could say WHAT symbols your chalice has on it
i dont know, i didnt even know we had any… hes making that claim about all chalice’s used in Catholic Churches
It is not up to you to prove anything - it is up to HIM to provide you with specifics.
I would answer him this way, “That is not true. The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ. However, the Holy Mother Church is 2000 years old and many of the symbols and language we use in our liturgy probably seems very strange to the modern eye and ear. Perhaps, my friend, you could be very specific and tell me what pagan symbols you think you see on the Chalice so that I can clear this up for you and your friends?”.
Whenever someone attacks you or The Holy Mother Church with spurious charges such as these, it is up to THAT person to provide you with the proof. Do not get worried or defensive. Merely smile, and say, “Nope. Not true.” When they tell you that’s what they heard, you can always tell them, “Well, remember, I have now told you that your information is incorrect. If you continue to repeat it you are breaking the 8th Commandment.”
Ye, let him tell you what are those pagan symbols and what they represent. If he doesn’t know then ask him why he keeps telling you that if he doesn’t even know what they are. If he knows and tells you and you don’t know whether it’s a pagan symbol or not then tell him you will look into it and come back to him later.
Meanwhile tell him whether his place of worship has a cross. If he says yes, then ask him how could they allow this when crosses used to be pagan symbols as well.
Dear brother John,
Your friend’s information comes from Jack Chick (ever heard of him? Popular supremely misinformed antiCatholic). He teaches that the symbol IHS means Isis, Horus and Seb, ancient Egyptian gods. Actually, IHS is an abbreviation of the Greek name for Jesus (the H is actually an X or “chi”).
I think I would also ask him why his church is wasting time preaching and teaching hate instead of the love and obedience which Christ commanded. Seems like they’re following the wrong leader.
<<IHS is an abbreviation of the Greek name for Jesus (the H is actually an X or “chi”).>>
Actually, it’s the Greek letter ETA from IHCOYC (c being an old form of sigma)
But by the same token IC XC is from the Greek spelling of “Jesus Christ”.
But it would be a good thing to ask your friend specifically WHAT symbols on the chalice are pagan and when did he see them?
Ye, I was thinking about Chick’s awesome explanation of IHS as well but he mentioned a chalice, confused me. As far as I know there are normally no symbols on them.
I just received the Precious Blood last Sunday. The chalice didn’t bear any symbols at all. :shrug:
Chalices used by a priest are usually gifts from family and friends, and almost always different from chalice to chalice. The chalices that an individual parish purchase are usually plain with no markings or symbols. For him to make a blanket statement such as this is absurd. If you are still concerned talk to your parish priest and ask to see the chalice that he uses during the consecration.
The only symbol the chalice in our church has on it is a cross on the base.
Just remembered, we have one chalice that is rather elbaorate and old - with a intricate design that reminds of flowers. Very pagan indeed :shrug:
The others are plain.
Every chalice is different. Many of the older ones are elaborately adorned, and may very well have Christians symbols on them. The one we use is plain. Look at your chalice at Mass next Sunday.
John, this is at least the 10th post you have posted about the “friend” and his wild accusations about the Catholic faith. You need to ask him a few questions:
(1) Why is he so gullible that he will just believe anything these people tell him wholesale, without investigating, without any facts, without any specifics.
(2) If he is your friend, then why does he want to attack your religion without any facts, without and proof?
(3) Would he be interested in learning the Truth about the Catholic faith?
If he won’t stop with these ridiculous accusations, perhaps it’s time to get new friends.
Show me the money… in other words, show me the proof or stop asking silly questions.
For you, I suggest you get a great book called The Catholic Source Book. It has all sorts of information about Catholicism, especially those things that are symbolic and/or liturgical. It has a whole section on Catholic symbols.
Chick makes the usual charges against the Eucharist. He doesn’t like the Real Presence and the sacrifice of the Mass in particular. He even says that the Mass is not mentioned in Scripture, despite the fact that the very first Mass occurred during the Last Supper (cf. Luke 22:19–20). The charges he makes have been answered many times.
What is distinctive about his approach is the attempt he makes to link the Eucharist with paganism. He claims: “On the altars of Egypt were sun-shaped wafers made of unleavened bread. These wafers were consecrated by the Egyptian priests and supposedly they magically became the flesh of the sun god, Osiris.”
Although Osiris was an Egyptian god, he wasn’t the sun god. That was Ra (in some cases identified with Horus). Osiris was the grain god and the god of the dead. There were grain cakes (little and not so little) connected with the worship of Osiris, but, since he wasn’t the sun god, they were not shaped like the sun. They were shaped like a man since Osiris was pictured as a man. The use of these grain men was connected with Osiris’s annual cycle as the god of grain. Every year, the Egyptians made cakes shaped like Osiris out of grain as an offering asking the grain god to reappear and make the land fruitful again. According to Egyptian wall art, priests even watered the cakes to get the grain in them to sprout and send up shoots. These Osiris cakes weren’t anything like communion wafers.
Another of Chick’s attempts to link the Eucharist with paganism is found in his frequent depictions of the host imprinted with the letters IHS. He tells the reader that this stands for a trio of Egyptian gods (who were not a trinity, incidentally). Chick’s claim is nonsense. The letters aren’t English at all, but Greek. In fact, they are the first three letters of Jesus’ name in Greek: iota-eta-sigma (capital eta in Greek looks like the English H). This has been a common abbreviation for Jesus throughout Church history.
Though you wouldn’t know it from Chick, few Catholics have ever seen a host imprinted with these letters. Most hosts either have nothing on them or a cross design. What design, if any, is imprinted on a host is up to the maker. There is no Church regulation on this, and few makers have used the IHS design. Yet Chick would lead one to believe that it is omnipresent in Catholic churches.Most of the chalices that I have ever seen have nothing on them and even the ones that I recall from my childhood that were ornate where actually very beautiful. One that I especially remember looked like it was made of white enamel and was just simple and beautiful.
**But **pagan used flowers! Take a look at the picture of the pagan goddess! You should leave this pagan church emidiately.
One of our glas windows has a sun in it! gasp I should leave indeed!
Where’s the phone number of my bishop, have to tell him that the cathedral has fallen away! :eek:
No, no! It’s pine cones! See for yourself:
Have you ever seen anything so ridiculous?
The devil must be having a good laugh (if it is capable of it !) or rather a scornful smirk - about all the confusion and fear and lies it is still able to bring in …? primarily to those to whom it can attribute its fatherhood to …
In the Beginning , there was nothing ’ pagan ’ …
And God’s children claim back all that is true , to bring it all back , subject to Him again …as it was in the beginning …even if the apish agent try to claim some of it as its own …
The apish one , having lived in The Presence know about The Trinity , hence has brought that awareness, into the cultures - with lies and distortion , like it always does …
All the eagerness to spread idol worship , its presence -thus to distort and confuse the Only Real Presence , in The Eucharist !
Same , for all the lies about goddess worship - to confuse and eradicate devotion to our Bl. Mother - the powerful enemy of the liar …
Yet , in God’s mercy, the half truths and awareness of same in pagan cultures get sanctfied, purified, and used - to connect , helping these cultures to gratefully see the truths that The Father allowed , even for them… and The Kingdom , His Glory marches on …!
And , yes , even the fathers of lies of our age , help us to only appreciate more, how grateful we can be !
Eucharistic indeed !
Have you ever seen anything so ridiculous?
Pine cones are common in Roman Catholic architecture and sacred
:rolleyes: I’d like to bean that dude upside the head with a pine cone.:knight2: