Paid in Full?

Protestants sometimes suggest that Jesus has paid our debt in full. I’m wondering, however, if as Catholics, we can say that such is sound theology. Has our debt been pain in full by Jesus on the cross? Do the doctrines of redemptive suffering and temporal punishment conflict with the notion that our debt has been paid in full by Jesus on the cross? Does Matthew 18:32 impact the answer to this question in any way? Please clarify, as I want to be sure that I correctly understand the Church’s teaching on this.

It has insofar as the sacrifice has been made for all mankind’s sins.

I do not think that we can say that that, as it is expressed, is sound theology.

Do the doctrines of redemptive suffering and temporal punishment conflict with the notion that our debt has been paid in full by Jesus on the cross?

Here I keep thinking of what St. Paul says, [FONT=“Palatino Linotype”] “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:” (Colossians 1:24)

Why would he and St. Peter both speak this way of suffering if it was as (over)simplified as much of n-C theology makes it out to be. Look here at Peter’s own words in 1st Peter 4:13. “But if you partake of the sufferings of Christ, rejoice that when his glory shall be revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.”

It is my own opinion that Catholicism is the only form of Christianity that has any sensible and scriptural concept of human suffering, and the only one that gives it any real meaning.

Does Matthew 18:32 impact the answer to this question in any way?

That passage actually begins up in verse 21, but you may be right that it does have some application here. Notice that here as in the Our Father, the Lord tells us that our own forgiveness is tied to the compassionate forgiveness that we extend to others who have hurt us somehow.

It is my own opinion that the majority of n-C salvation messages actually present a different and deficient gospel than that of the New Testament, the early church and the Catholic Church for the last 2,000 years.

Please clarify, as I want to be sure that I correctly understand the Church’s teaching on this.

I don’t know that this helps you any, as I may be misunderstanding what you are getting at.[/FONT]

Check out posts 37-38 on this thread.

The paid in full claim is usually based off of John 19:30 where Protestants insist “tetelestai” means “paid in full,” however, that translation is bogus, they have to dig to the bottom definition of a lexicon which says “pay,” and on top of that WHAT Protestant translation ACTUALLY says “paid in full” instead of “it is finished” no significant ones that I have found! Also, the Greek word is used one other time in the NT–John 19:28–yes two verses BEFORE John 19:30.

The true meaning of the word tetelestai is more likely to just simply mean “accomplished” or “it has been fulfilled.” This is because the word tetelestai is used only one other time in the New Testament, in fact in the Gospel of ST John, Chapter 19, verse 28—only two verses before the time the Lord Jesus cried these words on the Cross. Tetelestai is in the 3rd person perfect passive indicative singular. This verse hints at the context of Tetelestai, also the root of it is used also in the verse, τέλος :

Μετὰ τοῦτο εἰδὼς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅτι ἤδη πάντα τετέλεσται, ἵνα τελειωθῇ ἡ γραφή, λέγει, Διψῶ.

After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished τετέλεσται ], said to fulfil τελειωθῇ] the scripture, “I thirst.”—John 19:28

Now considering the Scriptures here use tetelestai here to refer to the events that passed at the cross it would seem odd to read the text here as;

After this Jesus, knowing that all was now PAID IN FULL, said to fulfil the scripture, "I thirst”

Other than John 19:28,30, the word in conjugated differently in other verses eg luke 2:39, Acts 13:29, Matthew 7:28, 11:1, 13:53, 19:1, 26:1, Revelation 10:7, 15:1, Matthew 17:24, 2 Corinthians 12:9, Romans 13:6, James 2:8 etc… Only two of the instances in the New Testament from which I have found telos simply means “to fulfill” a prophecy, or to “finish” something, or to accomplish an act, or to end something. There are two instances where it is used to apply to taxes:

When they came to Capernaum, those who collected the two-drachma tax came to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the two-drachma tax?”—Matthew 17:24

For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.—Romans 13:6

thisholysword.blogspot.com/2010/08/does-tetelestai-mean-paid-in-full-no.html

ChangingHeart #1
Protestants sometimes suggest that Jesus has paid our debt in full.
Please clarify, as I want to be sure that I correctly understand the Church’s teaching on this.

That is one of many errors.

We have been redeemed by Christ through His suffering, crucifixion and death on the cross, but we are not saved until we play our part. Church Militant has correctly used St Paul in Col1:24 to convey this.

The great Frank Sheed has succinctly conveyed this truth:
In Christ in Eclipse, Sheed and Ward 1978, p 105-7, theologian Frank Sheed gives us this insight:
“Read and reread Col 1:24. Every word is saying something vital to you and me, ‘I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake. And in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His body, which is the Church.’ Two shocks in ten words. Something lacking in Christ’s sufferings! Paul proposing to supply it! Coma would have to be very pious indeed not to be shocked into full consciousness….What was lacking in Christ’s afflictions? Whatever the human race could and should suffer with Him. Paul would offer his mighty contribution: our own lesser contributions we all have the opportunity to make.”

As stated by Paul, for our salvation, what is lacking is what only we can do, for the sake of His Body which is the Church; no one has said that there is anything lacking in Christ’s redemptive passion and crucifixion which has enabled the possibility of our salvation. How could there be? Christ was acting for the whole human race, not instead of, not as a substitute. “He bore our sins in His own Body on the Cross.” (1Pet. 2:29). What did Paul say must happen because Christ is the one mediator? “Supplication, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men” (1Tim 2:1-5). Thus we are all called to be co-redeemers. [See *Christ In Eclipse, Frank Sheed, Sheed & Ward, 1978, p 105-108).

“There is one great way available for all the Church’s members if they will to take part in Christ’s continuing work of redemption….This continuing priesthood of Christ breaks through to our altars at every Mass – the priest, by Christ’s command and in His name, offers the same Christ eucharistically present, to the same heavenly Father for the same purpose. It is beyond compare the most important work Christ does through His Church, and it is our privilege to join the priest and so join Christ Himself in the offering He is making in heaven.”

As we are all called to be coredeemers with Him, that is why His Church has given the title of Coredemptrix to His Mother, as the holiest of those He has redeemed, and worship at Mass with reception of Jesus Himself is incomparable.

“But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.” (1Cor 9:27). And again: “Wherefore he who thinks that he stands, let him take heed lest he fall.” (1 Cor 10:12). Yet again, “And we exhort you not to receive the grace of God in vain.” (2 Cor 6:1).

“It is not those who say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mt 7:21). When asked “What must I do to have eternal life?” Jesus answered, “Keep the commandments.” (Mt 19:16-17).

No one is “saved” until they have responded to the redemption of Jesus by cooperating with Him to supply what was lacking in His afflictions – when we walk in good works (Eph 2:10). As James teaches: “Faith without works is dead.” (See Jam 2:14-26).

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