Papal Tiara


#1

If he wanted to could a future Pope reinstate the wearing of the Papal Tiara and have the tradtional Papal Coronation or take the traditional Papal Oath?


#2

[quote=starrs0]If he wanted to coukl a future Pope reinstate the wearing of the Papal Tiara and have the tradtional Papal Coronation or take the traditional Papal Oath?
[/quote]

Of course he could.


#3

I agree that the Pope could, but probably won’t. I think Popes like to wear the same shoes as their predecessor. Such a crown of that size may be seen in the eyes of the world as a symbol of power and domination, pompous extravagance, etc. It may have had its place in its day, when it was better understood, but I agree with Pope Paul the IV. I think it was him who gave it away.

Besides, in my opinion, the giant silver tiara is ugly.

kepha1


#4

I think it’s beautiful!

Since the Popes aren’t wearing it anymore, where can I get it and give it to my Reformed pastor to wear? His wife would probably like it too!


#5

[quote=Reformed Rob]I think it’s beautiful!

Since the Popes aren’t wearing it anymore, where can I get it and give it to my Reformed pastor to wear? His wife would probably like it too!
[/quote]

Thanks for the laugh, Bob. :slight_smile:

Would they fight over who gets to wear the cassock in the family?

Peace in Christ…Salmon


#6

[quote=Salmon]Thanks for the laugh, Bob. :slight_smile:

Would they fight over who gets to wear the cassock in the family?

Peace in Christ…Salmon
[/quote]

A Cassock,

Oh, “an ankle length garment worn by the clergy.”

Thanks Lotus Word Pro Dictionary!

So, like, who would wear the pants? I think that’s pretty well established!

And the original thread is a good point. Was it Paul VI or Paul IV, I thought it was Paul VI. Anyways, not because I think it’s cool, but c’mon, why is the Catholic Church so “with the times” that it’s even concerned about modern fashion trends too?

Maybe people need a visible reminder that the Pope is the most supremely powerful individual on earth “as God on earth.” If that’s indeed true. Aren’t you Catholics supposed to be all about visible reminders.

Ok, I’m not wanting to be taunting, really. And, the tiara isn’t necessary. But, why stop wearing it? Why is it so necessary to escape that “medieval mindset?”

Well, I’m not even Catholic, but I wonder that.


#7

It was Paul VI:

Pope Paul VI was the last pontiff to wear the papal tiara. At the end of the Second Vatican Council, Pope Paul VI descended the steps of the papal throne in St. Peter’s Basilica and laid the tiara on the altar in a dramatic gesture of humility and as a sign of the renunciation of human glory and power in keeping with the renewed spirit of the Second Vatican Council. This last tiara was then given to benefit the poor, but remains as a symbol in the papal crest.

TU ES PETRUS


#8

Our Orthodox bishops wear crowns, and I suppose that Byzantine Catholic bishops do too.

Here is a photograph of my Archbishop Hilarion of Sydney (on the left) at a church service last Monday. In the centre is Metropolitan Laurus of New York, primate of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/images/people/ppimmain.jpg


#9

I like the tiaras. But speaking of that oath, why would this stop? Here are the words I found in a web search:

"I vow to change nothing of the received Tradition, and nothing thereof I have found before me guarded by my God-pleasing predecessors, to encroach upon, to alter, or to permit any innovation therein;

To the contrary: with glowing affection as her truly faithful student and successor, to safeguard reverently the passed-on good, with my whole strength and utmost effort;

To cleanse all that is in contradiction to the canonical order, should such appear;

To guard the Holy Canons and Decrees of our Popes as if they were the Divine ordinances of Heaven, because I am conscious of Thee, whose place I take through the Grace of God, whose Vicarship I possess with Thy support, being subject to the severest accounting before Thy Divine Tribunal over all that I shall confess;

I swear to God Almighty and the Savior Jesus Christ that I will keep whatever has been revealed through Christ and His Successors and whatever the first councils and my predecessors have defined and declared.

I will keep without sacrifice to itself the discipline and the rite of the Church. I will put outside the Church whoever dares to go against this oath, may it be somebody else or I.

If I should undertake to act in anything of contrary sense, or should permit that it will be executed, Thou willst not be merciful to me on the dreadful Day of Divine Justice.

Accordingly, without exclusion, We subject to severest excommunication anyone – be it ourselves or be it another – who would dare to undertake anything new in contradiction to this constituted evangelic Tradition and the purity of the Orthodox Faith and the Christian Religion, or would seek to change anything by his opposing efforts, or would agree with those who undertake such a blasphemous venture."

Sounds pretty good, so why not take it?


#10

The Papal Tiara of Pope Pius IX:

A Pope (I don’t know who) wearing the Tiara:

Pope Pius IX’s Tiara is BEAUTIFUL!

Thought you all might like the pics. Adios.


#11

[quote=AsStAnselmPrays]The Papal Tiara of Pope Pius IX:

A Pope (I don’t know who) wearing the Tiara:

Pope Pius IX’s Tiara is BEAUTIFUL!

Thought you all might like the pics. Adios.
[/quote]

Hi,
I believe that’s Pope Paul VI


#12

Other Popes with Tiaras:

Pius X
http://www.institute-christ-king.org/images/gallery/small/030_th.jpg
Pius XII
http://www.institute-christ-king.org/images/gallery/small/039_th.jpg
Pius XI
http://www.institute-christ-king.org/images/gallery/small/062_th.jpg
John XXIII
http://www.institute-christ-king.org/images/gallery/small/246_th.jpg


#13

[quote=kepha1]I agree that the Pope could, but probably won’t. I think Popes like to wear the same shoes as their predecessor.
[/quote]

Kepha,

Not necessarily - first of all, there’s the risk of athlete’s foot :o , … or corns and calluses :frowning: , if the shoe is too small.

Actually, a recent column written by someone who attended a recent papal audience, noted that when His Holiness was assisted to stand, it was obvious that he was wearing brown loafers, as opposed to the white slipper-type shoes that were traditional.

Many years,

Neil


#14

[quote=Fr Ambrose]Our Orthodox bishops wear crowns, and I suppose that Byzantine Catholic bishops do too.
[/quote]

Father Ambrose,

Yes they do.

Have you seen the new, collapsible ones? Much easier to transport - eliminates that hat box from the luggage.

No, I’m not kidding - some are quite indistinguishable and look quite beautiful - others are tacky and resemble the collapsible nesting type aluminum cups that were common (at least in the US) back in the dark ages (when you and I were children, my barely older :stuck_out_tongue: brother in Christ) as part of camping (maybe scouting? - not sure, as I never was one) gear.

Many years,

Neil


#15

And the original thread is a good point. Was it Paul VI or Paul IV, I thought it was Paul VI. Anyways, not because I think it’s cool, but c’mon, why is the Catholic Church so “with the times” that it’s even concerned about modern fashion trends too?

Maybe people need a visible reminder that the Pope is the most supremely powerful individual on earth “as God on earth.” If that’s indeed true. Aren’t you Catholics supposed to be all about visible reminders.

Ok, I’m not wanting to be taunting, really. And, the tiara isn’t necessary. But, why stop wearing it? Why is it so necessary to escape that “medieval mindset?”

You took the words right of my mouth I happen to like the tiara to me it solidifys the dignity of the reigning pope by viture of his office. I don’t see why the Church had to cave into the modernist trend and try to appear more simple.


#16

“Modernist” ?

Peter needed no tiara. He was a true disciple of His Master, because he died as He had, for the same reason, and in the same way.

Popes should be splendid for their virtues, not for their clothing. What do clothes have to do with Christlikeness, godliness, humility, piety, meekness, graciousness, holiness, faithfulness, self-control, goodness, charity, patience, forebearance, and other qualities such as Christians - especially pastors - ought to have ?

Nothing.

Was Christ less than Pus XII because he was led out to a Cross rather than carried on the sedia gestatoria ? Was Peter less than Pius IX because he had no army to foght for him ?

Who even thinks so ?

The Church is well-rid of baubles which have nothing to do with the mission and the reason for her foundation. Besides, “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also”. The Church’s treasure is - or should be - the inexhaustible merits of Jesus Christ; not the gold and silver and sculpture and paintings she possesses. Those can be taken from her, lost, destroyed; but her virtues cannot, still less can Christ Himself. A beggar-pope is no beggar at all, if he belongs to Christ; but all the riches in the world won’t make up for the absence of moral authority, of holiness, or of God’s grace, if a Pope - or other pastor - is merely a well-dressed scoundrel.

BTW - it was Celestine of Rome (422-32) who said that priests should be notable for their virtues, rather than for their vestments. There is no reason why that should not apply to Popes. ##


#17

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.