Parish priest refusing to use new missal


#1

Hey guys, I have been reading the other threads on the new missal, and am feeling so left out. As the title reads, my parish priest, without consulting the parish has decided to "take a stand" against the new Missal and continue with the old form.

I live in Ireland, and as you'll know from the headlines, there is a lot of confusion and bitterness towards the Church here, from both within and without. So, our parish priest has decided to reject the new missal and continue as before. He hasn't mentioned it to us in Church, not at the preparation stages, not today when the official launch was supposed to be - it's like he's decided it doesn't exist. I'm so disappointed, and I'm praying hard for him. And I am in no position to criticise him with my sinful past anyway. Also, I'd say only a minority in our parish were aware this new translation was coming in, and an even smaller minority would be bothered that he's not using it. Not through their own fault, but more through lack of catechesis. It's a very rural area and I don't think many of the local farmers would understand that this is an issue of disobedience to the Pope.

Any advice? Well I know I'll keep praying for him anyway. Moving to a different parish doesn't seem like the ideal solution, especially because I feel like the parishioners in my church are being deprived of something so valuable that the Pope has given his full blessing to.


#2

[quote="trials, post:1, topic:264229"]
Hey guys, I have been reading the other threads on the new missal, and am feeling so left out. As the title reads, my parish priest, without consulting the parish has decided to "take a stand" against the new Missal and continue with the old form.

I live in Ireland, and as you'll know from the headlines, there is a lot of confusion and bitterness towards the Church here, from both within and without. So, our parish priest has decided to reject the new missal and continue as before. He hasn't mentioned it to us in Church, not at the preparation stages, not today when the official launch was supposed to be - it's like he's decided it doesn't exist. I'm so disappointed, and I'm praying hard for him. And I am in no position to criticise him with my sinful past anyway. Also, I'd say only a minority in our parish were aware this new translation was coming in, and an even smaller minority would be bothered that he's not using it. Not through their own fault, but more through lack of catechesis. It's a very rural area and I don't think many of the local farmers would understand that this is an issue of disobedience to the Pope.

Any advice? Well I know I'll keep praying for him anyway. Moving to a different parish doesn't seem like the ideal solution, especially because I feel like the parishioners in my church are being deprived of something so valuable that the Pope has given his full blessing to.

[/quote]

I suggest that this matter needs to be urgently raised with your diocesan bishop. You need not do this alone. You say that others in your parish, even though may be a minority, will be concerned about this. You could approach your bishop as a group rather than one individual. It is the Holy See that decides on the liturgy for the Catholic Church, not individual priests. The bishops of Ireland were responsible for the Missal's revised translation in English and for any adaptations the Holy See allows bishops' conferences to make. Your priest is in disobedience to the Holy See, the Irish bishops, and his diocesan bishop. This matter really needs to be dealt with. Have courage!


#3

Yes, advice would be to discuss it with your priest and if he still refuses, let your bishop know of the situation and the CDW if necessary.


#4

[quote="trials, post:1, topic:264229"]
Hey guys, I have been reading the other threads on the new missal, and am feeling so left out. As the title reads, my parish priest, without consulting the parish has decided to "take a stand" against the new Missal and continue with the old form.

I live in Ireland, and as you'll know from the headlines, there is a lot of confusion and bitterness towards the Church here, from both within and without. So, our parish priest has decided to reject the new missal and continue as before. He hasn't mentioned it to us in Church, not at the preparation stages, not today when the official launch was supposed to be - it's like he's decided it doesn't exist. I'm so disappointed, and I'm praying hard for him. And I am in no position to criticise him with my sinful past anyway. Also, I'd say only a minority in our parish were aware this new translation was coming in, and an even smaller minority would be bothered that he's not using it. Not through their own fault, but more through lack of catechesis. It's a very rural area and I don't think many of the local farmers would understand that this is an issue of disobedience to the Pope.

Any advice? Well I know I'll keep praying for him anyway. Moving to a different parish doesn't seem like the ideal solution, especially because I feel like the parishioners in my church are being deprived of something so valuable that the Pope has given his full blessing to.

[/quote]

I am very shocked to read about this situation.

In England and Wales we have been using the new translation on a trial basis since the first Sunday in September. We were told that the new translation is mandatory from today, and that the old translation is no longer authorised for use in the Church. I would imagine that the position is the same across the English-speaking world. Surely that would mean that the old translation has been formally "decommissioned" and is now, effectively, a defunct rite. If that's the case then your priest is being very unfair to you and his other parishoners. Surely your Bishop would not tolerate this?

I hope your prayers are answered - quickly. With best wishes.


#5

This sounds like you are jumping to conclusions.

Why did he reject the missal?

You gave a whole lot of speculation, but no word from the priest himself.

My ideas

  1. he is lazy and just dosnt care…solution report him to the dioceses.
  2. he is older or has a reading/learning disability and
    really is struggling with memorizing…in which case loving support would be best.
  3. he has a legitimate concern about the wording that really hasnt been adressed…talk to him then the dioceses. The other traslations (french, spanish etc) have been implimented for years. English presented a huge challenge because its so widespread. My priest admitted that some prazes were exceedingly awakward in modern american english.

Finally, the timing of the mass change is horrible in this economy. Most people don’t realize just how much these materials cost. Perhaps this is a case of a priest trying to pay the bills. Believe me, I know many parishes who are relying on photocopies because they just dont have the money. I feel the vatican was a bit careless in the timing…and I know priests who also feel this way. Parishes arent financially solvent and this may be their undoing.


#6

[quote="trials, post:1, topic:264229"]
Hey guys, I have been reading the other threads on the new missal, and am feeling so left out. As the title reads, my parish priest, without consulting the parish has decided to "take a stand" against the new Missal and continue with the old form.

I live in Ireland, and as you'll know from the headlines, there is a lot of confusion and bitterness towards the Church here, from both within and without. So, our parish priest has decided to reject the new missal and continue as before. He hasn't mentioned it to us in Church, not at the preparation stages, not today when the official launch was supposed to be - it's like he's decided it doesn't exist. I'm so disappointed, and I'm praying hard for him. And I am in no position to criticise him with my sinful past anyway. Also, I'd say only a minority in our parish were aware this new translation was coming in, and an even smaller minority would be bothered that he's not using it. Not through their own fault, but more through lack of catechesis. It's a very rural area and I don't think many of the local farmers would understand that this is an issue of disobedience to the Pope.

Any advice? Well I know I'll keep praying for him anyway. Moving to a different parish doesn't seem like the ideal solution, especially because I feel like the parishioners in my church are being deprived of something so valuable that the Pope has given his full blessing to.

[/quote]

Wow! This stuff happens, we've got U.S. parishes that are eaten up with Protestant ideas (meaning, if I don't like it I'll protest it and do it my way) but I would have thought, with all the extant problems in Ireland, these guys would at least try to toe the line.

All you can do is reason with him and if that doesn't wark write the Bishop.


#7

[quote="purplesunshine, post:5, topic:264229"]
This sounds like you are jumping to conclusions.

Why did he reject the missal?

You gave a whole lot of speculation, but no word from the priest himself.

My ideas
1) he is lazy and just dosnt care...solution report him to the dioceses.
2) he is older or has a reading/learning disability and
really is struggling with memorizing...in which case loving support would be best.
3) he has a legitimate concern about the wording that really hasnt been adressed...talk to him then the dioceses. The other traslations (french, spanish etc) have been implimented for years. English presented a huge challenge because its so widespread. My priest admitted that some prazes were exceedingly awakward in modern american english.

Finally, the timing of the mass change is horrible in this economy. Most people don't realize just how much these materials cost. Perhaps this is a case of a priest trying to pay the bills. Believe me, I know many parishes who are relying on photocopies because they just dont have the money. I feel the vatican was a bit careless in the timing....and I know priests who also feel this way. Parishes arent financially solvent and this may be their undoing.

[/quote]

Unfortunately I know that he is "making a stand" against it from a priest colleague of his - that he is refusing to use it for a number of reasons, not financial ones, and not because he is eldlerly, he's early forties. He sees nothing wrong with the old missal, and would be of the opinion "if it ain't broke don't fix it".


#8

[quote="purplesunshine, post:5, topic:264229"]
This sounds like you are jumping to conclusions.

Why did he reject the missal?

You gave a whole lot of speculation, but no word from the priest himself.

My ideas
1) he is lazy and just dosnt care...solution report him to the dioceses.
2) he is older or has a reading/learning disability and
really is struggling with memorizing...in which case loving support would be best.
3) he has a legitimate concern about the wording that really hasnt been adressed...talk to him then the dioceses. The other traslations (french, spanish etc) have been implimented for years. English presented a huge challenge because its so widespread. My priest admitted that some prazes were exceedingly awakward in modern american english.

Finally, the timing of the mass change is horrible in this economy. Most people don't realize just how much these materials cost. Perhaps this is a case of a priest trying to pay the bills. Believe me, I know many parishes who are relying on photocopies because they just dont have the money. I feel the vatican was a bit careless in the timing....and I know priests who also feel this way. Parishes arent financially solvent and this may be their undoing.

[/quote]

It really does not matter why he is choosing not to use the new Missal.

It is not within his authority to choose not to use it.

I think the OP should gather together a group and approach the priest about this. Then if there is no change then they need to go to the bishop.


#9

It had to come. We have "Catholics" who cling to the 1964 Missal, we can expect "Catholics" who cling to the 1970 Missal. What distinguishes the Catholic Church from other Christian denominations is that we have an authoritative Church that follows Christ's mandate that "whatsoever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven".

The Bishops of Ireland have decided to adopt a new translation of the Missal with effect from Advent Sunday. If your Parish Priest disobeys his Ordinary by ignoring this decision, he is committing a serious sin and separating himself from the Catholic Church. I suggest you find another Parish until such time as your Bishop has dealt with the offence.


#10

The core problem is the new translation is an affont to the native English language ear. When I heard it first and now at today's Mass, it is clunky, stilted and cacophonous. The poetic nature of the prayers have been stripped away. It sounds as if a computer translation program wrote the changed prayers. Shame on the Curia for this abhorrent missal.


#11

[edited]

OP, please see who else from the parish is concerned about this and all of you contact the bishop asap. This kind of thing must be nipped in the bud.


#12

[quote="willmac, post:10, topic:264229"]
The core problem is the new translation is an affont to the native English language ear. When I heard it first and now at today's Mass, it is clunky, stilted and cacophonous. The poetic nature of the prayers have been stripped away. It sounds as if a computer translation program wrote the changed prayers. Shame on the Curia for this abhorrent missal.

[/quote]

Really? I'd never noticed an ounce of poetry in the old translation -- more like "See God. See God run. Run, God, run!" Three cheers for the Curia!


#13

[quote="ByzCath, post:8, topic:264229"]
It really does not matter why he is choosing not to use the new Missal.

It is not within his authority to choose not to use it.

I think the OP should gather together a group and approach the priest about this. Then if there is no change then they need to go to the bishop.

[/quote]

Agreed, 100%.

The priest in question promised to obey the bishop and is not doing so. Furthermore, the faithful in the parish have a right to the authentic liturgy of the Church and the authentic teaching of the faith that goes along with it. Disobedience of this kind is a significant breach of trust. The priest is doing the parish no favors by acting in this fashion.

Mat 18:15-17 If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church...

To the OP. I think following the plan presented above in the Gospel of Matthew would be a pretty good idea. Talk to your priest. If that does not work, find others and talk to him as a group. If that does not work, go to the Bishop.

God Bless, and Peace.


#14

[quote="willmac, post:10, topic:264229"]
The core problem is the new translation is an affont to the native English language ear. When I heard it first and now at today's Mass, it is clunky, stilted and cacophonous. The poetic nature of the prayers have been stripped away. It sounds as if a computer translation program wrote the changed prayers. Shame on the Curia for this abhorrent missal.

[/quote]

I personally thought the Eucharistic prayer and the credo were very nice, and had a great cadence and flow. The collect at the beginning of mass was a little awkward, but that might have been how the priest said it. The real problem, is that the old translation is an affront to what the theology and prayers actually are in Latin. :shrug:


#15

How sad. I am glad to read that you are praying for your Priest, and I "ditto" the suggestions to get a group together and get the matter elevated to your Bishop. See this as a calling to help Christ protect His flock.

Be at peace, and remember, "God does not call the qualified, He qualifies the called".


#16

[quote="MarkThompson, post:12, topic:264229"]
Really? I'd never noticed an ounce of poetry in the old translation -- more like "See God. See God run. Run, God, run!" Three cheers for the Curia!

[/quote]

I always thought the old Nicene creed was quite poetic. But to continue your analogy, the new version of your example is "O God, my eyes stand fixed upon the holy vision of your image. O God, my eyes are standing fixed upon your heavenly ambulations. Ambulate for our souls, O God, ambulate for our souls".


#17

[quote="willmac, post:10, topic:264229"]
The core problem is the new translation is an affont to the native English language ear. When I heard it first and now at today's Mass, it is clunky, stilted and cacophonous. The poetic nature of the prayers have been stripped away. It sounds as if a computer translation program wrote the changed prayers. Shame on the Curia for this abhorrent missal.

[/quote]

Clunky, perhaps. But you can hardly call it non-poetic: so much of the concrete images have been restored. Consider Eucharistic Prayer 3, introduction: old form: "From age to age you gather a people to yourself, so that from east to west a perfect offering may be made to the glory of your name."

In the new words, that sentence becomes: ". . . and you never cease to gather a people to yourself, so that from the rising of the sun to its setting a pure sacrifice may be offered to your name."

Now we have God never ceasing work (Jn 5:17), and the gathering is not only "east to west" (space only) but "from the rising of the sun to its setting" (not only space, but time).

How about all the restored references to God's hand or face, to dew dropping down?

I find, looking back, that the 1970 translation was so leveled down that it becomes abstract and even boring. I'm hoping the new translation will be rich enough that it keeps its interest.


#18

[quote="jimrob, post:9, topic:264229"]
It had to come. We have "Catholics" who cling to the 1964 Missal, we can expect "Catholics" who cling to the 1970 Missal. What distinguishes the Catholic Church from other Christian denominations is that we have an authoritative Church that follows Christ's mandate that "whatsoever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven".

The Bishops of Ireland have decided to adopt a new translation of the Missal with effect from Advent Sunday. If your Parish Priest disobeys his Ordinary by ignoring this decision, he is committing a serious sin and separating himself from the Catholic Church. I suggest you find another Parish until such time as your Bishop has dealt with the offence.

[/quote]

JimRob, fyi the Extraordinary Form, Usus Antiquior, Mass of 1962 or whatever term you wish to use was never abrogated, and the Missal of Pope John XXIII is still valid. The previous Missal of the Roman Rite was replaced with the Third edition. So the second edition is no longer valid. Not a question of clinging.


#19

[quote="Contra_Mundum, post:11, topic:264229"]
Why does there always have to be a ridiculous excuse for these things?
He is disabled? Economy is bad????????

OP, please see who else from the parish is concerned about this and all of you contact the bishop asap. This kind of thing must be nipped in the bud.

[/quote]

Oh im sorry.

Should I confess the mortal sin of being compasionate on this forum? Meh. Nevermind.

I am going to Hell anyway as I'm too busy reading Harry Potter in my bikini on a beach after buying it on a Sunday from my friend, a gay Moslem.


#20

This is just to say hello from Canada and I hope you get everything sorted out.My grand parents were from Clifden, Connemara and they fought so hard for the Church in Ireland,I can't imagine how they would feel today.By the Love of God everything will soon be well again .Keep the Faith ,you keep praying I;ll keep praying


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