The pastor at a non-Catholic church I play at, who is an absolutely wonderful man, routinely says “This represents my body” and “this represents my blood” when saying the prayer over the bread and grape juice at their monthly communion service. Is this typical for Protestants to change out the word “is” with “represents”? Does it happen at your church?
Beno you have hit the proverbial nail on the head on what is non Catholic as opposed to Catholic…transubstantiation!
Wow, sounds as though the man may think he has the authority to improve on the Holy Bible. Silly man.
No, it’s not typical for “Protestants”. At least not forLutheran Protestants.
Since I am a Lutheran, this simply cannot happen in my church. Luthans firmly believe that the bread and wine are the body and blood of the risen Lord.
What denomination does this pastor represent?
What denomination does this pastor represent?
Presbyterian USA - but I suspect the word change is his, and not of the Presbyterian Church in its various forms.
Typical protestant? IMHO That’s kind of an oxymoron since there really is no such thing when discussing most theological issues…
Every non-liturgical church I ever went to did this. Well, all the ones that had some kind of “communion service.”
It is very predominant in the non-denominational and Baptist churches. They change Scripture to fit their needs. I always found it rather ironic.
Edit: I was thinking back, and I don’t think my military Chaplin actually changed the words of Scripture. But every time there was a communion service he always took about 10 minutes beforehand to explain why the bread is just a representation.
Why are Catholics complaining about this? Probably he is one of the few protestant ministers that fully understand that what he is doing is just a representation. Probably he knows that he cannot say “This is my body” because he is not an ordained priest. Just pray for him to realize that he could say “This is my body” once he converts and becomes a priest.
What he is saying is the absolute truth.
Because he has not received the sacrament of Holy Orders and the priesthood, it would false for him to hold up bread and say that it IS the body of Christ.
Reminds me of a story (which I will badly paraphrase) I heard about an ecumenical gathering attended by high representatives of many churches, including a catholic bishop, an orthodox patriarch, and a female Episcopal bishop. During the mingling time, the Patriarch was surprised to overhear the catholic greet the Episcopal bishop as ‘Bishop -name-.’ Upon asking, the Catholic bishops replied “Why not? She’s as much a real bishop as these other guys!”
You are correct. I was, as well as I think the OP, that it is ironic that they change the words of Scripture to fit their personal interpretation.
My wife is a Presbyterian PCUSA and I have told her that if a Hindu went to the communion service he would assume Presbyterians believed that the bread and juice became Jesus.
How sad that the pastor change the words. There is a Presbyterian Book of Common Worship and I do not know how free he is to change things. He does not “represent”(irony, no?) what my experience has been at the Presbyterian congregation over the years. They commune only 6 times a year.
It shouldn’t be happening with a Methodist pastor, either; we also believe in the Real Presence of our Lord.
Is it OK if I feel a measure of relief that it wasn’t anyone in the Methodist tradition that was doing this?
I mean, I’m still:eek: appalled that he takes it on himself to tamper with the words, but at least he’s not coming from a church that holds to the Real Presence.
At least, to the best of my knowledge, Presbyterians don’t believe any differently that this pastor is saying…But still…
I wonder if someone will take this up…apart from the fact that the Lutheran pastor is NOT an ordained priest of the Sacrament instituted by Christ himself that is.
Chill out, what matters? Folk can say whatever they want!
I can set up a church and call it whatever I want, reproduce my version of the bible, change whatever I want and in the process criticise the CC for being the CC and CC bashing is very popular at the moment.
I can teach that the Lord did not use wine but Blueberry juice from California, produced by American Indians and delivered by His angels. The bread could be that used by the East Anglian English where we like to have a slice of bacon, egg and beans on our piece of bread. I can say ‘This is by full English Breakfast which is offered up for you, do this in remembrance of me’ Afterwards he took the cup of Nescafe Alta rica coffee with two sweeteners’ and looking up to His heavenly Father said ‘this is the coffee which is representative of what ever I want it to represent’!
Of course that sounds disrespectful. But it should not. It is not the Mass,. I have no authority to consecrate. My words of consecration are about as valid as a wooden bank card. No one takes it seriously except for a few of my cranky followers.
What matters what other folk do? It is what happens at the Holy Sacrifice of the Catholic or Authodox Mass that counts. All else is trivia.
In the trivia, chill and enjoy for the farce that it is. Enjoy, it is a party,
I’m sorry… What do you mean? Take what up?
Lutherans don’t believe in any more than two sacraments - the baptism and the eucharist. So the fact that the Lutheran pastor isn’t an ordained Catholic priest doesn’t really mean anything to Lutherans;)
I had listened to a Protestant radio show where the Pastor, when speaking of the last supper, said "Jesus took the bread and said this "represents” my body, and then Jesus took the JUICE and said this “represents” my blood"
This is not during a communion service, he was giving a bible study and quoting from the Bible. I know he was paraphrasing what he believed the bible teaches, but he passed it off as that is how the Bible reads. I e-mailed him with my concern about changing the words of Christ, but he never responded back.
Was this pastor a Seventh-Day Adventist?
No it was Chuck Swindoll.
I think that there is a wide variety of belief as to the Eucharist in the United Methodist Church. I’ve certainly been to a number of Methodist Churches where they believed in a symbolic Eucharist.
Sorry, don’t know who he is.