Patriarch calls for warmer US-Russian relations [CC]


The head of the Russian Orthodox Church met with the US ambassador to Russia on November 28 and called for warmer US-Russian relations. "We are experiencing not the best period in the …



Possibly he could call for Russia to give Crimea back to Ukraine and stop its invasion of eastern Ukraine. That would probably help a lot.


What does that have to do with the US?


Budapest Memorandum


Well apparently the will of the people was 96 percent in favor of joining Russia and the US used the same type of logic when Kosovo had a referendum of 99 percent. Russia can claim that it wasn’t necessarily a territorial breech but rather a decision by the autonomous republic. The memorandum doesn’t bind Crimea’s entire political future. Its all political and I think both Russia and the US could be accused of mounting economic pressure against Ukraine to influence it.


The Crimean “referendum” was bogus, and everybody in the world knows it. Crimea was already occupied by Russia, and the fake “referendum” outcome was a given.


It tells the U.S. that Russia is an aggressor in Europe and that it should be regarded as such. That affects policy, or should.


Just like the one in Kosovo was. But even then where is the underground movement fighting against this in Crimea? There doesn’t seem to be that much outrage over it from Crimean’s.


An “aggressor” against a country that the US has no trade with and isn’t in NATO. I’m still not seeing how this should damage relationships accept for American’s with rule the world syndrome that think everything is their business . But what would Russians consider the US using that logic, an aggressor in the Middle East that should be treated as such?


Crimea is occupied by Russia. What do you expect them to do? Do you think they don’t know what happens to dissidents in Chechnya? Remember, the guy Putin put in charge in Crimea used to be the one in charge of stifling dissent in Chechnya.

Crimeans were given one month in which to accept Russian citizenship. So, those who didn’t, are foreigners within their own country. A lot have left. But being a refugee is not a great situation either.


Aggression and conquest should be disturbing to anyone who would prefer to see peace in Europe. That has nothing to do with trade or NATO membership.

The U.S. has not annexed any territory in Europe, ever. Russia has, and recently, and is in the process of doing it some more. Nearly all European nations have voluntarily allied themselves with the U.S. Nobody in Europe has voluntarily allied itself to Russia except perhaps the odious dictatorship in Belarus.

All one has to do to see the differences is open his eyes.


John Mccain is trying his very best to add Hungary to that list.


No I don’t. I think Crimea’s occupation is quite mild compared to the places where we have seen underground or freedom fighting movements. The only missing ingredient seems to be popular sentiment for it, maybe it has something to do with the ethnic composition of Crimea ?


Hungary is already a member of NATO. By its support of the neo-Nazi Jobbik party, however, Putin’s Russia does seek to separate Hungary from NATO. Jobbik has irridentist claims on Ukrainian territory just as Russia does, so they do have a common interest in carving Ukraine up. Kind of a newer version of the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact, one expects.

P.M. Oban got waxed because McCain spoke against Putin’s plan to terminate the gas line through Ukraine, placing it, instead, through Hungary.

But that doesn’t mean Hungarians are likely to get into any hurry to rejoin a neo Warsaw Pact. They learned what that meant back in 1956. So, for now, Putin’s only ally in Europe is Belarus, and maybe not quite Belarus.


The U.S. would be wise to heed Patriarch Kirill’s advice. Russia wants security along it’s borders. The U.S. has been arrogantly trying to isolate and punish Russia. Russia is a proud country and will not bend to America’s will. The best course of action would be a policy of mutual respect. Slava Rossija.


Mccain was talking about Orban the PM of Hungary and the leader of Fidesz not the Jobbick’s. I can tell you detest the Jobbik party (every right wing party except Israel’s for some reason) but is Fidesz not liberal and western enough for you either? Is Hungary officially in your Putin category of evil doers because Orban dares to stand up to the west/Eu? Again Mccain would drop dead before insulting real western buddies like that (Israel).

You are right about one thing the west is doing a masterful job of destroying Russia’s sphere of influence. Putin the aggressor is such an expansionist that he literally lost everything. If this is Russian aggression and expansion then I hate to see what happens to Russia when it isn’t expansionist. Its also great that western liberalism will be coming to eastern Europe really quickly know. I can’t wait for the BBC to start writing stories on the new found social tolerance there in a couple of years.


No reason to be snide and personal. You can’t read my mind, so let it go. Talk about the facts.

McCain said what he did in a confirmation hearing for an ambassadorship, not to anyone in Hungary. Still, he’s a public figure and, I guess, everything that goes on in the U.S. is watched and critiqued by some. McCain has never been known for his diplomacy, but still, he’s only one man. Not everything said by every American politician can or should be taken as an expression of American policy, foreign or otherwise.

“Russia lost everything?” Why did is “deserve” to rule others, ever? Post Cold War Russia was shorn of its empire, or at least most of it. And it should have been. It should not have aspired to rule Poles, Hungarians, Czechs or Ukrainians, particularly since they did not want that rule, and that rule was vicious and cruel. Any revanchist attempt should be looked on with disfavor, just as a British attempt to retake Sri Lanka should be looked upon with disfavor.

And as far as I know, Orban is not trying to dissociate Hungary from the EU. As soon as Hungary or any other eastern European state decides to become part of a Russian empire again, I’m sure we’ll hear about it.


Russia doesn’t literally want to rule/take over those region but like the west and EU they wanted to have a European partnership to create a buffer zone between them and the west. I was mainly referring to Ukraine in my post but now I guess the western dictatorship of the EU and west will be officially unopposed in Europe. Those countries will have to adapt to the west culturally soon and learn to get in line with what the EU tells them but thats what happens without a power balance on that continent anymore.

Orban isn’t stupid, he knows what the top dogs in the west and media think about him. Mccain might be the loudest one but he represents a large group of hawkish westerners who think the same thing about him in private. The posturing toward Russia is a backdrop for support that Orban is trying to get in face of the hostilities that he’s seeing from his western “friends”.

On a side note do you support the socialists over Fidesz in Hungary?


I don’t support any political body in Hungary. I’m not Hungarian, and don’t follow Hungarian politics except to the extent that some may be stalking horses for Putin’s neo-USSR.

Any country can opt out of the EU and NATO. But apparently Putin doesn’t think Ukraine can opt out of Russia whether Ukraine wants to or not. And nobody but Putin knows where his imperial ambitions end. For certain, they did not and do not end at the borders of Ukraine.

No country in Europe has conquered any of the territory of any other country in Europe since WWII except Russia, which has. That tells Europe all it really needs to know about any reasonable expectation of a true “partnership” with Russia.

And say what he will, Orban has not withdrawn Hungary from either the EU or from NATO. Let us all know when he does.


And say what he will, Orban has not withdrawn Hungary from either the EU or from NATO. Let us all know when he does.

If you are going to complain about snide remarks… don’t worry I will, I’m his personal secretary. Nothing gets out without going through my desk first.:rolleyes:

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