Penn & Teller; factless smear of the Church

I dunno I think they made some good points especally on the sex abuse stuff. Excommunication for reporting an abuser!? :eek:

Penn & Teller equates the Pope’s infallible decrees with the concept of Papal policy. The Magisterium of the Church has no Papal policy other than adherence to the correct interpretation of Sacred Scripture and Tradition as guided by the Holy Spirit as messenger to the Pope. The religion of secular humanism guided by science is the enemy within the Catholic Church. It is alluring in that it seem rational - only if you take God as illuminated by Sacred Scripture and Tradition out of the equation. One cannot argue with secular humanism guided by science unless one is willing to accept the premise of removing God from the discussion.

I wholeheartedly support Bill Donohue in his work to fight back against this anti-Catholic diatribe. If we just sit back and take it, more lies wil be spread about the faith. Now matter how small the audience, this show is still out there on a major cable network with the potential to reach millions of people who may not know better and accept it as fact. There’s a time to ignore maybe some harmless digs at the Church done in good humor, but a blatant attack like this has to be countered with a response. After all, no other ethnic or religious group would let something like this slide without calling it out for the bigotry that it is.

I question the assertion that reporting a sex abuser in the clergy resulted in excommunication. I wish I could fact-check this assertion. Anybody able to point to a reliable Vatican source for this allegation?

I don’t have a problem with Mr. Donohue or his right to react to outrageous slander against the Church. But there ought to be some sort of honest evaluation of what that effort consists of before marching off to war. As another poster mentioned, there is no substance in the response so far. It has only been “Look at these horrible things they are saying about us,” rather than “they claim this, and here is my response to the false claims.” That might do some good, but I can’t see any real good coming out of fueling a controversy specifically aimed at to increase the popular draw of the show. If the response only adds viewers and gets nothing by way of apology or an offer to present counter views, then what good did it do?

no other ethnic or religious group would let something like this slide without calling it out for the bigotry that it is

That is the premise of The New Anti-Catholicism: The Last Acceptable Prejudice I highly recommend it.

re Donohue, I like his work and his mission, but his hyperbole and vituperativeness sometimes backfire, in that he comes off sounding exactly like the bigots he wishes to expose (in tone, in particular). I think it was Al Kresta who remarked the sign of intellectual maturity is to represent your adversary in a way they would recognize as fair and accurate. For better or worse, Donohue doesn’t always do that. I point that out because I wish he would – he would be more successful, and that we all would wish for.

The above book, for instance, makes many similar points to what Donohue makes, but it is clearly scholarship and not polemic, informed or not. It thus makes for far more compelling (and sometimes troubling) reading.

My question is this: Who cares? Are you really offended by what a mime and illusionist say? Is their opinion really that in important?

I care and I am offended. I would be offended if this same level of vehemence were aimed at Muslims, Jews, Protestants, Buddhist, Hindus, Amish, Quakers, and any other deeply held religious faith.

I believe they mention the document. I’m looking it up now…

Here we go the Guardian Link story includes a PDF of the document with the stuff Penn and Teller talked about highlighted. Well inclosed in a blue box, but still there it is.

Here is the document there talking about Link take careful note of what is in the blue boxes.

I never hear Karl Keating or Jimmy Akin or Tim Staples or anyone at Catholic Answer attack the messenger rather than the message. They attack the anti-Catholic messages only. The complete opposite of what Mr. Donahue seems to think is noble and “righteous.”

We should all be praying for Penn & Teller, and praying for them to one day know the Holy Spirit in their lives, not demonizing them further. We should be responding their misguided accusations, not make parlor games of attacking them.

I admit everytime I’ve seen Bill Donahue he always looks bitter and angry. Like he has never smiled a day in his life, he strikes me as someone indeed of prayers. If do no other reason than he could use a reason to smile.

I care that God is offended in blasphemy, indifference, and outrage. I care for the souls of Penn and Teller by offering my suffering in union with the infinite merits of Jesus for their conversion before they reach judgment.

Excommunication usually happens not for doing something but for not doing something, that is, for not obeying. If the accusation is false and the person in question reported it anyway and was justifying an action in opposition to the Church, then they are separating themselves from the Church. The Church is not under the control and authority of secular governments, as much as neo-pagans insist it be. The actions of a member of the Church is autonomous to the secular state in matters of Church business, but not to the detriment of truth and justice. An accusation can be false and a hasty reporting of a false accusation is detrimental to the truth no matter what one thinks of the institution involved.

You will note that it makes it clear they are NEVER to go forward with this but to let the Church handle it. I can just see the reaction on this forum if the same thing was going on behind closed doors with Mormons, Muslums or us Neo-Pagans.

I watched the whole tape. They accuse the Church of spreading death by ruling out the use of condoms. I have to ask “Would anyone depend on a condom when having sex with someone who is HIV+”. The Church is right on this point.

I have to agree with Penn and Teller about the sex scandal. If the media and courts didn’t press the issue the Church would not have done anything about it. This makes me sad.

I think it’s absolutely ridiculous to think that any practicing Catholic was happy about the sex abuse scandal. There is a very strong belief that Catholics didn’t have a problem with it and that just makes me wonder why those same people have no problem with their children attending public schools where sex abuse is by far the most common.

Here’s a copy of an email from the Catholic League about a Dr. Laura Schlessinger:

April 27, 2009


On her radio show of April 24, Dr. Laura Schlessinger engaged a caller on the subject of priestly sexual abuse. Dr. Laura said she was “stunned” that the penalties for abuse “were not more severe.” She continued by saying, “So because of that I no longer, you have not heard me in all these years tell anybody to send their kids to Catholic school, where in the past I did that all the time.”

Catholic League president Bill Donohue commented as follows:

“I will not lose faith in Dr. Laura simply because she is not up to speed on this issue, but I cannot sit back and indulge her cluelessness. Quite frankly, as anyone who has read the John Jay Reports on this subject knows, the vast majority of abuse took place between the mid-1960s and the mid-1980s, at the height of the sexual revolution. The bill may have come due in 2002—the year the Boston Globe exposed the Boston Archdiocese as the epicenter of the problem—but this hardly justifies the conclusion that nothing has been done to correct the situation in recent times.

“Indeed, I would challenge Dr. Laura to name a single institution—private or public—that has instituted a ‘zero tolerance’ policy, save for the Catholic Church. Every staff person and volunteer who works for the Church has had to undergo the most rigorous training seminars on the subject of the sexual abuse of minors, something unmatched by any other organization. Indeed, if Dr. Laura wants to know which institution is responsible for the lion’s share of this problem today, she needs to take a serious look at the public schools. And then she might investigate why so little reform has been instituted. I can save her the time—it’s called the teachers unions.

“Here’s the number of credible accusations made against the over 40,000 priests in the last few years: 2008 (10); 2007 (4); 2006 (14); 2005 (9).

“Dr. Laura’s moral compass remains one of the finest indices of sanity in the nation. Indeed, we are big fans of hers. But she does need to correct the record.”

Granted that just ONE incident is too many, no one has done more in any institution to prevent sez abuse regardless of what happened before. The question should be what we have done about it since and not what should have been done.

I watched that whole video though I almost turned it off twice. There’s nothing to say about it other than it illustrates the disfiguration that the enemy is so willing to give anyone who rejects Christ and becomes their own God. They really" do not know what they do."

The church was a mess the day Judas betrayed Christ with a kiss…or if you want to go further back than that, the day Adam and Eve decided to believe the lie of Satan that they could be 'like God".

The truth is still the truth no matter how painfully inept we all are at living it.

Penn and Teller are the living breathing examples of Rom 1: 18-32
Who says the Bible isn’t relevent :wink:

They join many other pied pipers of this generation who have substituted honor for God with futility of their senseless minds.

Watch the video…warning, it is shocking.

I have watched the first 8 minutes if the film so far. fainting Well our Lady did warn us in 1917 the Persecution of the church. I will back. I will continue to watch the rest.

It is very tough to watch the entire video…no doubt.

It matters because of the wide audience it received.

They’re fighting back hard? Oh, really? :confused::confused::confused:

I’m still scratching my head at the apparent lack of interest - a complete absence, as it were - of any rebuttals to their allegations. If I had a quarter for every time I read the same exact “press release,” I’d move to the Acapulco. Seriously.

As Jack Palance said in “Shane,” prove it. **Prove it. **Is that too much to ask, or am I the only one who’s finding the “response” really lacking???

Anyone?? Sheesh…one of the most “teachable” Catholic moments that landed in our laps, and nobody wants to talk about any of Penn & Teller’s accusations?? I just don’t get it… :frowning:

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