People remain seated during the "Pray, my brothers and sisters, that our sacrifice..."


#1

I have been going to Mass at a parish where the people remain seated when the Priest begins to say “Pray, my brothers and sisters, that our sacrifice…” and then everyone stands after the people say their part.

Is this permitted? Am I allowed to stand when it says [stand], per the instructions, even though I would be the only one standing (the Priest is standing too).

[stand]

Priest: Pray, my brothers and sisters, that our sacrifice
may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father.
All: May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands,
for the praise and glory of his name,
for our good, and the good of all his Church.


#2

I don’t know where you are or which book you’re using but in Canada we are instructed to stand before responding, not when the priest is saying “Pray brothers and sisters…” though really, that’s the only time a call to ‘pray’ doesn’t mean 'stand up".


#3

I haven’t been to an English Mass in a long time but isn’t it now “my sacrifice and yours” rather than “our sacrifice”?


#4

That is the way it was done up until a few years ago; then it was changed to the way your book says. Maybe the bishop in that diocese opted to keep it the “old” way. This is probably a case of when in Rome, do as the Romans.

As with all changes, my questions are, was it wrong the “old” way, and did our prayer not count for doing it that way?


#5

I think you are right. We do stand during this portion of the Mass. I think the priest says, “please stand” . Which is helpful since we get that over with before the prayer starts. Noise abates, Prayer! :slight_smile:


#6

It’s the only parish I’ve been to that does it this way, the other parish I go to in the same diocese does it where the people stand where it says [stand].

And the translation may be outdated, I copied this from an Internet source.


#7

It’s a bit of a mess here. Some people will stand when the priest starts “Pray, brothers and sisters…”, some will stand halfway through, and some will stand when the people respond “May the Lord accept…”

We’re actually suppose to do the third one here in Canada. I’ve been meaning to ask the pastor to clarify this for us.


#8

What so many people addressing this forum forget is that the Mass and prayers are not some magic formula that has to be done exactly a certain way verbatim to make it work. Yes there are rubrics to be observed in the Mass, but minor variations do not nullify the Mass. After all, we are human and even in dealing with the Lord we can make mistakes.
Let us not be nit-pickers because doing this puts us in league with the Pharisees who Christ spoke against.


#9

So it would be okay if I stood up then? I didn’t think it would make the prayer invalid or anything, but I didn’t know if I should just follow the crowd on this one… :shrug:


#10

Precisely. I timed both the priest’s part and the people’s part and they consume only about 12 seconds. And this is right before a much longer preface when everyone stands anyway. If people all have to stand in perfect unison that might be significant but they don’t rise in unison thankfully. Some are naturally slower than others so let’s give the slow ones (like me) a break. Heck it takes me over 30 seconds just to get out of bed in the morning.:slight_smile:


#11

The way it used to be in the USA is that both parts of the dialogue happened while seated, THEN people stood when their spoken part was over.

When the change occurred in 2004, we checked 3 separate times with the diocese about the correct timing of standing. They adamantly said that the standing should happen AFTER the priest’s part, before the people’s part.

Some parishes went ahead and have them stand before the Priest’s part. It starts to infect other parishes when people “parish hop” and travel. I think its smoother this way, but that is not what the GIRM says:

  1. Standing at the middle of the altar, facing the people, extending and then joining his
    hands, he says:
    Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters),
    that my sacrifice and yours
    may be acceptable to God,
    the almighty Father.
    The people rise and reply:
    May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands
    for the praise and glory of his name,
    for our good
    and the good of all his holy Church

#12

My parish does this also


#13

I thought it changed to the above after the revised translation. :confused: I still get confused with the new postures, but I rarely attend the OF anymore. I know in the EF High Mass, we’re sitting during this part, but in the Low Mass we’re kneeling. I can’t keep track of all these different postures anymore. :shrug:


#14

[quote="ChrisCA, post:9, topic:291532"]
So it would be okay if I stood up then? I didn't think it would make the prayer invalid or anything, but I didn't know if I should just follow the crowd on this one... :shrug:

[/quote]

Ask the pastor. :cool:

I've got a similar situation going on, except here no one stands until after the Prayer over the Gifts and before the Preface Dialogue ("The Lord be with you" "And also with you" "Lift up your hearts" etc.), which I'm fairly certain shouldn't be happening. We have seven priests; besides the pastor, they all allow this. Since his arrival in late 2010, the pastor (Fr. B) has tried to train people to stand after the Orate fratres ("Pray, my brothers and sisters...") and before "May the Lord accept the sacrifice..." but old habits die hard, I guess. When Fr. B celebrates Mass, I and about four other people stand at that point. Almost everyone else follows sometime during or after the people's response, and some remain seated until after the Prayer over the Gifts regardless.

When any other priest is the celebrant I follow the crowd, but I will probably clarify if it's okay to stand after the Orate fratres no matter who celebrates and even if no one else rises. I haven't asked Fr. B about this yet because (1) I don't know if he's aware the other priests tolerate the previous practice and I don't want to get anyone in trouble, and (2) he's on vacation right now and won't be back until early August.

In case it makes a difference: for those who don't already know it, I'm in France but I'm an expat so I'm not fully versed in the norms for the Mass here. We don't have missalettes so I have no reference from that standpoint. My missal does not give instructions as to when to stand, sit or kneel. I don't yet have a copy of the PGMR (French GIRM) published by the French bishops' conference (CEF). As far as I can tell it's not available online, or they've made it really hard to find. The text of the PGMR on the Vatican Web site does not include any Holy See-approved adaptations the CEF might have made. :whacky:


#15

[quote="Deo_Gratias42, post:13, topic:291532"]
I thought it changed to the above after the revised translation. :confused: I still get confused with the new postures, but I rarely attend the OF anymore. I know in the EF High Mass, we're sitting during this part, but in the Low Mass we're kneeling. I can't keep track of all these different postures anymore. :shrug:

[/quote]

In the EF High Mass we stand whenever the priest sings. The Orate Fratres is not sung. The Preface is. :)


#16

Well I was wrong about the “alert” to stand. The priest today did say my sacrifice and yours,

To initiate that portion of the Mass he said “Let us pray” and stood there until the movement noise of people standing subsided. It was not long. Really one of the things I appreciate but fail to notice at time. I am grateful to those who pose these kinds of questions, it makes me pay better attention.


#17

You are right in that some people think that you skip the creed on Sunday and the Mass is invalid, but we also must not be allowed to ever change the rubrics on our own accord, or even be sloppy with them, and use ignorance as an excuse. It’s not a magic formula, but it is a divine ritual which needs to be precision and extreme reverence.


#18

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