perry stone

anyone know about this guy? my mom was telling me about some video they watched at church about prophecy and the zodiac…

seems whacky…

store.voe.org/p-455-eh-71-prophecies-encoded-in-heavens-package.aspx

store.voe.org/p-255-communion-manna-fest-package.aspx

links, info?

He teaches on biblical phophecy and the rapture. He writes books, has DVDs, and has package tours to the Holy Land.
I think he makes a pretty good profit from his merchandise, but I also think he sincerely believes in what he preaches (rapture and end times).

Hope this helps. Maybe some of the other forum posters know more than I do about him.

Jean

Even if sincerely believing, he is sincerely perverse from the authority God established. So, I agree that he’s wacky. We Catholics know that Perry Stone (like any and all the others in the private interpreting crowd) has no authority whatsoever to teach his interpretations, if they differ with the Magisterium.

Vatican II (Dei Verbum # 10) taught: “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Anyone claiming to be a “theologian” who would also claim that he can ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is ignorant of the truth of Christ. The teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of knowing the truth. There is no license or valid freedom here to go beyond what he’s qualified to do, according to what God has established. Per the way God set things up, Perry Stone is not qualified nor entrusted with authority to interpret the Word of God. We Catholics know that the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified theologian.

That’s the same type of thinking that motived the Catholic Church to kill thousands of non catholic Christians hundreds of year ago.

You couldn’t be more wrong (in many areas). First, your problem is with Christ, as what you denigrate is exactly what Christ set up. Christ established an authoritative teaching Church, so your problem is that not knowing the truth even in Scriptures, you neither know Christ. That Perry Stone and others are wacky, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to live. They really need to repent and learn and live the Gospel. Next, your slander won’t get you anywhere… the Catholic Church didn’t kill people as you’ve falsely alleged. Why do you denigrate and slander the Bride of Christ? Do you really think that is what Jesus asks of us?

MDK Don’t tell me that I do not know Christ !!
I know Christ and I know the Bible. The Bible clearly teaches that each individual Christian has the ability the understand what it says.

The Bible absolutely does not teach that each individual Christian has the ability to understand what it says. It says quite the opposite. Please check out 2 Peter 1:20 “Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.” Then, if you think that the Bible is even the upholder and defender of truth, please read 1 Tim 3:15 “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

You see, the Church upholds and defends truth, not the Bible. The Bible doesn’t teach it’s own truths. This is where many get into trouble and distort the inerrant Scriptures with their own private, but wrong interpretations.

So, I not only will tell you that you really currently don’t know Christ, but I must in order to be true to you… So, if you believe even any of the following, then you really don’t know Christ…

…you think He didn’t build His Church as an authoritative teaching institution, with Peter as visible head.

… you really don’t know that we must eat His Body, and drink His Blood, else we have no life in us. The Holy Communion is really and truly His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

… we have a right of private interpretation of Scriptures that includes conflicts with the infallible teaching Church.

a quick bonus, if you believe…

… His mother is not Queen of Heaven.

I could go on, and on. When anyone interprets Scripture as they simply think is correct, conflicting with the authoritative and true teaching of Christ’s Gospel, the they no longer have God’s teaching, but their own.

I’ll continue with more… St. Jerome who translated the Scriptures from Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic into the Latin Vulgate, said “ignorance of Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” When anyone distorts the meanings of God’s Word, they no longer have His teaching, but their own. In that case, it would be ignorance of Scriptures, which is ignorance of Christ.

Where did we get the Bible?

Christ established His one Church. Members of His Church are the writers of the NT Scriptures. The inspired NT Scriptures as well as OT Scriptures were collected and put into the Bible by the Catholic Church. Do you see a Table of Contents somewhere in Matthew’s Gospel, Luke, Mark, or John for instance? No, we don’t. The table of contents comes exclusively from the Catholic Church exercising the authority given to it by Christ, with the protection of the Holy Spirit.

So, do you believe you have the right from God to interpret infallibly the document written by Catholics, and assembled by Catholics which only the Catholic Church has the authority to teach without error in faith and morals? No, God established His Church to teach infallibly. His Church stems from His Will. Anyone who conflicts with this, then also conflicts with the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit inspired author, Peter is recorded in 2 Peter 3:16 as speaking of Paul, “As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

Do you really believe that this Scripture tells us, as you put it “that each individual Christian has the ability to understand what it says”? It doesn’t say that those of evil intent are the ones who wrest these Scriptures to their own destruction, but the unlearned and unstable who do this. It doesn’t say that they reject Christ, but these same people may desire Christ, and yet wrest Scriptures to their own destruction. The authoritative Church knows and has taught correctly, that the Word of God is not simply for private interpretation of each individual Christian, no matter how well-meaning they may be. The Church is doing what God has established as is its responsibility, to teach authoritatively and without error the Word of God as it applies to faith and morals. The Church built by Christ as done so faithfully for almost 2,000 years. No other church can honestly make that claim. If you really desire the Gospel of Christ taught without error, and His Sacraments, God has provided for that. I thank God for this, as I am truly appreciative that we don’t have to flounder around and not know.

Unfortunately, we know when the Baptist church was established, and who established it, and it was not at Pentecost in 33AD, and it was not established by God…, and the Baptist church has not taught without error in faith and morals… not in the beginning of that church, and not today. I’m not picking on the Baptists, because Perry Stone’s faith system has not taught without error either, neither has Methodist church, Presbyterian church, the non-denom churches, etc. They cannot, as Christ never promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against churches that He did not build.

It may be a bit of a shock to you now. However, if I told you something other than this, I would then be lying to you. So, who is it that is truly a greater friend or neighbor to you, one who has wittingly or unwittingly told you falsehoods about Christ and His Church, or one who has told you the truth? I appreciate knowing the truth about Christ and His Church (His Body, His Bride).

Those two last sentences are a non sequitur **to begin with - and, they presuppose that Christ relies on man that He may be known by them: which is grotesquely untrue. On the contrary, the initative in knowing Him never lies with man, & always lies with God. Were it otherwise, God could be gracious to us only if, without God’s grace, we took it into our heads to ask Him for grace. But in that case, we would be taking the first step in our salvation, & He would have to wait for us to ask for His help. **

**If any of that were true, which it is not & cannot be, we might as well use St. Paul, St.John - & the whole NT & the whole Bible indeed - & a lot of Catholic teaching, as so much waste paper :eek: :frowning: **

…you think He didn’t build His Church as an authoritative teaching institution, with Peter as visible head.

… you really don’t know that we must eat His Body, and drink His Blood, else we have no life in us. The Holy Communion is really and truly His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

… we have a right of private interpretation of Scriptures that includes conflicts with the infallible teaching Church.

a quick bonus, if you believe…

… His mother is not Queen of Heaven.

I could go on, and on. When anyone interprets Scripture as they simply think is correct, conflicting with the authoritative and true teaching of Christ’s Gospel, the they no longer have God’s teaching, but their own.

Thank you for your interest in the subject, but I think you missed the meaning of what was written. Actually, what I wrote was true, including the last two sentences you seemed to make mention of. My post did assume that one is reading with some degree of desire to understand and with their thinking cap on. I don’t believe that is unfair. Is it that you somehow think that God has not revealed truths about Himself to men? For, he indeed has. It would be unreasonable for anyone to interpret what was written as though we could know everything about God, because then we would be God and He wouldn’t. And that’s not what was conveyed, because I along with hopefully everyone here know that’s just not the case. It would also be foolish for any Catholic to read this as though God did not reveal truth about Himself and give us some way to know the truth. If you understood what was written, and also what Christ established, then you likely would be singing a different tune.

I’ll explain the “last two sentences” you mentioned to lay it out much more detail (which could have also helped if you had read the posts that followed). It means that one really does not know Christ (as much as a human can), by falsely interpreting Scripture. St. Jerome said as much, when he said “ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” In other words, the more you know the truth of God’s Word in Scripture, the more you will know Christ. The more you misinterpret God’s Word in Scripture (or don’t know it at all), the less you know Christ. I think that’s fair, especially when talking common ground of Scripture, not discussing Oral Tradition at this time. We want to know as much truth about Christ as possible, don’t we… I believe this is what the Christian desires. The examples provided were to show common things that Bible-only people misunderstand…, and that really are very beneficial to the Christian in knowing Christ, and walking closer to Him in friendship, and applying the merits of His death on the cross to our lives in our time. So, even the few things mentioned are really very important, and I said I could go on with that list. It was quite obviously not meant that one knew literally nothing about Christ as there’s nothing in the context of the conversation to suggest that, being the Baptist believes that Christ is the Son of God, who died for our sins. So, one concludes that more one misinterprets, the more one misunderstands Christ. Since Christ is our Savior, isn’t it important that we know truthfully what He said and did, the true understanding of the Atonement, His doctrine, His Sacraments, etc…, and not simply believe in false understanding of the Atonement, in false doctrine, rejecting some of His Sacraments as mere symbols or as superficial? St Peter told us that the ignorant twist Scriptures to their own destruction… so isn’t it important to know what God has told us without error?

To continue, my post doesn’t presuppose at all that Christ relies on men to figure Him out, as in solely by their intellect. Those who understand what I had written know it is quite the opposite. Christ did teach about Himself, and revealed doctrine about Himself. Christ did establish the Church to teach infallibly, but not without His protection. I don’t know that I can assume that you understand what the Pope is, as the “Prime Minister” of the King, when the King returned to Heaven? Do you understand what the keys given to Peter signify? It’s only because of the protection of the Holy Spirit that these men can teach infallibly.

Thank you for expressing your understanding, even if it wasn’t in line with what I wrote, so more detail could be provided. Another may have had a hard time understanding as well.

The Bible teaches what responsibility each individual Christian has toward the Word of God.
First we are to study it. 2 Timothy 2 : 15
We are the meditate on it. Joshua 1 : 8
We are to follow or obey it. Psalm 119; 9 thru 11

To do so God gives us the Holy Spirit understand his Word
1 Corinthians 2; 9 thru 12 but as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath perpared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit;, for the Spirit seacheth all thing, yea the deep things of God
For what man knowth he things of man save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God know no man, but the Spirit of God
Now we have recieved, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God
Not just a select few but to all Christians

St. Paul tells us that we have a spirit capable of receiving spiritual things. He never tells all the Corinthians that they have or will receive interpretations from the Spirit, or that they can interpret God’s Word on their own, or that the Holy Spirit will teach each one of them individually, with no need for the Church. If you go on in 1 Cor 2, beyond the 12th verse, we see that St Paul continues with a discussion of the sensual man and the spiritual man. The understanding of what this address is “The sensual man is either he who is taken up with sensual pleasures, with carnal and worldly affections; or he who measureth divine mysteries by natural reason, sense, and human wisdom only. Now such a man has little or no notion of the things of God. Whereas the spiritual man is he who, in the mysteries of religion, takes not human sense for his guide: but submits his judgment to the decisions of the church, which he is commanded to hear and obey. For Christ hath promised to remain to the end of the world with his church, and to direct her in all things by the Spirit of truth.”

Do you think you understand better today than the early Church Fathers, which lived closer in time and location to Christ? Some of these same people learned directly from the Apostles. For starters, your interpretation is in conflict with theirs regarding teaching authority.

We do need to study His word. This is absolutely true. However we must follow what Christ really established, and not our own mangled versions. What good is it if we distort, as you have to create a meaning different from what Christ intended? Do we then have His teachings or our own version? You have made your own gospel… one that won’t teach infallibly.

It’s good that you love the Scriptures. However, what did Christ say to us? Did He tell us that we could live on part of the word of God, as we desire to interpret? No. He told us that we live on every word that comes from the mouth of God. The true teaching of a Scripture passage (or passages) does not conflict with the other Scriptures. You have quoted selected Scriptures, and provide a meaning that is out of the context of the whole, so that **your interpretation brings conflicts with other Scriptures. ** This does violence to their meaning in order to support man made doctrines. In short, you teach falsely because you interpret falsely. **Your interpretation is in direct conflict with the following Scriptures:

2 Peter 1:20,
2 Peter 3:16,
1 Tim 3:15.**

In order for one to believe your view, we have to ignore certain Scriptures, and distort others. You do violence to the word of God in order to attempt to support your position. St. Paul, nor anywhere in all of the Scriptures does it even once tell us that Christ would send His Holy Spirit to each individual Christian to understand the Scriptures. St Paul tells us that we have a spirit capable of receiving spiritual things. He never says all the Corinthians have received interpretations from the Holy Spirit, or that they can interpret on their own.

**The Catholic understanding and teaching of 1 Cor 2:9-12, and on is not in conflict with 2 Peter 1:20, 2 Peter 3:16, 1 Tim 3:15, or any other Scripture. **

Where did God tell you that He would send His Holy Spirit to help each individual Christian interpret? Answer is that He did not. Christ never promised this. Evidence is how is that idea working out for you? There are so many who call themselves Christian, and yet have different doctrine, different or no Sacraments, different understanding of salvation, different understanding of the Church… **Do you think the Holy Spirit teaches differently to each person? ** No. The Holy Spirit does not teach differently than Christ. Christ and His Father have no difference on the doctrine, or Sacraments. Do you think Christ and the Father differ on Baptism (infant or “believers”), or the Eucharist (real and true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ, as opposed to a symbol). No. There is not one iota of difference in teaching doctrine and the Sacraments between the Holy Spirit and Christ, nor between Christ and the Father. Are you telling us that this is what happened? Are you telling us that all doctrines are equally valid and from the Holy Spirit? This is quite simply not the case. **Belief in and support of the Bible alone, and right of private interpretation of God’s Holy Word, is fatally flawed. **

God didn’t give each individual the Holy Spirit to interpret or teach His Word infallibly. God built His Church for that. This is why the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth…, not Scriptures. The Holy Spirit did inspire the Scriptures, such that they are inerrant. However, the Holy Spirit protects the authoritative Church built by Christ from teaching any error in faith and morals when teaching the Word of God.

Judging by this, Stone is some kind of Pentecostal. I’m not sure, but I think that “verbal inspiration of the Bible” means they believe that God dictated the Bible, and the authors were merely scribes.

Of course, Jesus said that only the Father knows the day and time of the Second Coming, so any attempt to predict it is futile.

Stone is also a premillenialist, and a believer in the so-called rapture. At least they believe in the Trinity.

As a Catholic, I’m going to stay away from Stone and his teachings.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

Riiiiiiiiight. And I suppose that your own Protestant ancestors are all pure as the driven snow?!

Not likely that you’d point out that equal numbers have been mistreated, persecuted, or outright murdered because they didn’t agree with the pillars of the Reformation.

Nor will you have the good grace and honesty to speak to the facts of all my Irish Catholic ancestors who suffered under the Protestants to the point of poverty, starvation, exile, flight to avoid same, or death.

It is a simple historic fact that the reformers departed from the original, “full Gospel”, New Testament Christian faith and all their modern step children have spent the intervening years desperately trying to make themselves look justified in the eyes of men while concocting new winds of errant doctrines that do not align with either the Word of God or the verifiable writings of the early church.

Net result: The ever increasing cascade of errant doctrines and teachings that they mess up sincere believers with. :tsktsk:

1John 2;7 Buut the anointing which ye have recieved (Holy Spirit) of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL things , and is truth, and is no lie and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

First of all, you made a simple typo, as it’s not 1 John 2:7, but 1 John 2:27. Very minor and likely incidental thing, as it’s not something major like distorting the Holy Word of God.

Let’s first look at 1 John 2:20 which is “But you have the unction from the Holy One, and know all things.” The phrase “Know all things”… means “The true children of God’s church, remaining in unity, under the guidance of their lawful pastors, partake of the grace of the Holy Ghost, promised to the church and her pastors; and have in the church all necessary knowledge and instruction; so as to have no need to seek it elsewhere, since it can be only found in that society of which they are members.”

Then, we’ll go to the one you wanted use to distort the meaning of for your own purposes, 1 John 2:27 “And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him, abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you; but as his unction teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him.” And, neither does the truth of this passage support what you falsely claim. The passage, “You have no need”… means “You want not to be taught by any of these men, who, under pretence of imparting more knowledge to you, seek to seduce you (ver. 26), since you are sufficiently taught already, and have all knowledge and grace in the church, with the unction of the Holy Ghost; which these new teachers have no share in.”

When your false interpretation is in direct conflict with the other Scriptures, there is no possible way to legitimately support your interpretation. If you note, the Catholic teaching is consistent with the passages that your interpretation conflicts with, namely

2 Peter 1:20,
2 Peter 3:16,
1 Tim 3:15.

In fact, there is no official Catholic Teaching that conflicts with any passage of Scriptures.

So, once again, you’ve shared your very fallible interpretations of God’s Holy Word. Once again, they conflict with those who walked with Christ, and those who were taught directly by those who walked with them. It conflicts with what our Lord has taught.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. It is not possible for the Holy Spirit not to be the Spirit of Truth. So, how is it then that the Bible alone folks claim the Holy Spirit is leading you all, but into different interpretations which are quite irreconcilable. Do you believe there are many different truths, such that each individual has their own truth? If you believe that the Holy Spirit teaches anything other than the truth, then you blaspheme.

The Church is the teacher of public revelation. The end of public revelation was with the death of the last Apostle. Christ gave us a deposit of faith, which the Church teaches the truths revealed to us by God, for all the faithful.

If the Holy Spirit spoke to you individually, then that would be private revelation. What you are claiming is that through private revelation is the prime means and final authority in which Christians are taught all the meanings of the teachings of God that were given to us in public revelation. Once again, this is simply not the case.

So, what you’re actually doing is attempting to put words in the mouth of God, that were never taught. Is that what we Christians are called to do?

I must continue to tell you in truth, that God didn’t promise to send the Holy Spirit as a private interpreter of His Word to each Christian believer to simply read Scriptures to know His teachings infallibly. He built His one Church to teach infallibly with the protection of the Holy Spirit.

I’ve considered whether it was getting off topic as well, and have been considering moving it elsewhere. I’ve only kept in it because it’s related to the idea of whether Perry Stone is “wacky” or not, and whether he is doing what Christ asked by interpreting Scriptures on his own, of which the false idea of right of final interpretation by all Christians is being refuted. In that sense, it goes to whether Perry is wacky or not, or whether he is doing what he should be doing. Catholics know he is not, and I agree completely, that he’s not worth our time, as he misleads into false teachings, which are not the true teachings of God to His family.

Young man, if their was a prize for twisting what the Word of God teaches you would win hands down. When I give you a passage of Scripture you outright reject it. God did not give his Word to just a select few, it is for all Christians to understand. Paul says that baby Christians should only understand the baby food (milk) from the Word and mature Christian understand the meat of the Word so I guess you are still feeding on milk.
The idea that Christian can not understand the Word is a old ploy by the Catholic Church to maintian control of it’s followers… They wanted Christians to be solely dependent on the church which give the Catholic Church control over wealth’
The first protesters of the Catholic Church were not protesting over docture, they were protesting over the Churches abuse of it’s power and wealth. false Catholic doctiure developed later

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