'Personhood' abortion amendment clears Missouri House committee


#21

Markus, I do not understand your comment. If the bill was amended to remove any exemptions (even for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother) then how does it justify murdering the unborn? The bill would allow no exemptions.


#22

The law ought to say, “Abortion, regardless of the circumstances, is illegal.”

That is what I mean. I do not think it is acceptable to claim to support human life, while disregarding it in cases of rape, incest, or “life of the mother”.


#23

Hold on a moment - am I reading that correctly? The law is going to ban abortion in all circumstances?

In that case, I am very, very, happy.


#24

You are required to understand it and respect it - “it” being the pain. Again, too hard to understand or you’re so obsessed with your pro-life position that you can’t reason anymore?


#25

Exactly! My hubby was an OB-Gyn for over 35 years and never had a woman have to face killing her child, and he was a graduate from Stanford.


#26

Yes it is likely and no they don’t.


#27

So why do we need to know pain to have an opinion here?

Are you afraid that without it chances are likely that the conclusions will be unbiased?


#28

All pro-life adherents understand the excrutiating pain the child goes through when it is ripped into pieces and sucked out of its mothers womb


#29

Hopefully this move will be enough to punish those mother’s that hire people that do just that.


#30

Keep going. Keep twisting my words.

Before screaming that women who have abortions are damned murderers , you should think about the pain they’re probably going through, physical and emotional. That’s the FIRST thing you should think about. The circumstances, the possibilities, the possible trauma in case of abuse, the financial stability/instability. Do you understand? The post I responded to came off as insensitive and cruel. The “baby” isn’t the only one you should bring up when you debate this. The whole situation DOES NOT revolve around the “baby”.

You can call women who have sex “a lot”, get pregnant accidentally (that means some sort of contraceptive failure, in case you want to twist this too) and then have an abortion however you want. You can express your hatred and anger towards them. You can protest. But all you do is scream that it’s murder and that the baby lives too and that it’s a person. These are not arguments - just emotionally “ravaging” and shocking statements. That’s what you base yourself on. Then you act totally emotionally indifferent towards women. You do realize that like this few people are going to take you seriously, right?

Without arguments and a full picture, I can’t agree with you. Full stop.


#31

Read my last post. I won’t repeat myself.

Oh…and in the early stages the fetus doesn’t even feel pain. Nice try. And even if it did, no consciousness or any kind of intellectual awareness so… equal to nothing. Usually the termination is also quite fast because it’s painful for the woman too :wink: .


#32

Does a sleeping person or a comatose person have intellectual awareness or consciousness?

Regarding sentience, as this source says. “if sentience is the criterion of full humanness, then the reversibly comatose, the momentarily unconscious, and the sleeping would all have to be declared nonpersons. Like the presentient unborn, these individuals are all at the moment nonsentient though they have the natural inherent capacity to be sentient.” "Why should sentience “in the past” be the decisive factor in deciding whether an entity is fully human when the presentient human being "is one with a natural, inherent capacity for performing personal acts?"4]


#33

Vivian 42 - Very sorry if you have ever suffered through a miscarriage which is completely not a deliberate abortion. It is an entirely different situation unless a woman is having a deliberate abortion and the unnatural destruction causes her pain.

Otherwise, all your angry expressions in defending a pro-abort stance, are wrong. Defending life as, Our Lord has given those who are fighting against the evil of abortion, is an act of love. Try to open your mind and heart to the innocent babies that have been ravaged by those who profit from their death and sell their bodies.


#34

I’m not angry. I responded in the same tone as the others have. And I’m 15. No sex, no pregnancy, no miscarriage.


#35

The difference is you view this as a womens rights issue-we view as Our Church does-a Human Rights issue,


#36

I’m sorry, but usually the people in those kind of situations have already been born, have been educated and most likely CAN and DO return to the state of consciousness. Not valid.

Listen: not even babies are fully grown offspring. Like the ones who are actually out of the womb. They would have needed at least 2 years to catch up with the other mammals in the animal kingdom. Think about what that means. That’s why they’re so helpless at birth (it couldn’t have been otherwise anyway because they’re huge). The fetus in such early stages is absolutely insignificant.

What are you fighting against? Imaginary problems like this are not worth stressing over. Why don’t you adopt a few children and take care of them? Why don’t you help them in any way you can? I, personally, plan to adopt. I don’t have the means to help right now, but you, you people that keep fighting against abortion like it’s the worst thing in the world , what do you do? Do you think that the illegalization of abortion will end it? No, it will end many women’s lives through inadequate methods of getting rid of the unwanted pregnancy.

I’m aware that some catholic organizations do help and support, but I’m talking about ALL of you. Why are so many children in the orphanages? I’m also an adopted child. My mom told me in what conditions they kept us. Do you have any idea how they treat the children who remain there? Life is not so sweet. Unwanted children are cast aside and abused in many ways. Their needs are not properly fulfilled. They’re kept in misery. Stop fighting against something you don’t understand.
Now you may say “But you were adopted and thank God almighty for the life you’ve been given!” . Guess what, I’m like the very unique exception to the rule. I might have been just extremely lucky, no God involved. People generally hate the idea of adoption and such refuse to do so. They say “But it’s not mine! It’s not made out of me and my partner! I can’t know if he/she has any sort of hidden illness! I don’t know if I’ll get along well with the kid knowing I’m not the biological mother/father!”. So you get a dead end.

I’m not accusing any of you of anything. I’m putting forward genuine questions. Aside from raging and throwing insults at those women, what do you do? Have you analyzed the problem from all points of view? Are you open-minded enough to understand ALL the implications? Are you willing to help in a real and meaningful way? If not, please refrain from commenting. It’s not worth it. Especially when you have zero arguments against abortion (zero compelling arguments).

The world is awful simply as it is. It’s really no need to complicate ourselves with divergence in such situations. There’s nothing to debate here, really. We all really know what’s going to be chosen anyway.


#37

Please read my post.

Implying women are not human? Come on, of course it’s a human rights issue. The right of the people who get to choose what to actually do with the not-yet-fully-human thing.


#38

The claim of being an innocent child and supporting abortion at the level of an activist, is rather suspect. :shrug:


#39

Check my first thread. I’m not lying.

Oh, and thank you. You’ve just told me that I’m intelligent for the age of 15. :smiley:

And I’m most certainly not innocent.

Let me clarify: I’m here because I love to debate. I know no other sites where I can actually do so on a higher level. And here I don’t have friends that like to debate the way I do. So I’m stuck with the internet. Logical enough?

Btw, in order for other conspiracies not to evolve, the 42 in my name is for “death”. It’s from a video game. The meaning of life :cool:


#40

If not human then what? Human DNA. Human parents. Born human. Yeah, that’d be human.

You say you are 15. Fact: you will not be fully mature for several more years. Does that give an impoverished family, beset with pain or extreme illness, the right to “terminate” you?

We can, and do, appreciate the circumstances women considering abortion are in. That’s why part of pro-life work is helping women financially and emotionally.

Abortion hurts women, hurts cultures, robs families. It’s not worthy of protection.


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