Please explain to me why gay marriage is wrong

Hey everyone. I am a Catholic. I converted to the Catholic Church in 2006 and I used to agree with the Catholic Church’s teaching on gay marriage. I used to agree that it is wrong but I do not agree with the Catholic Church’s teaching on it anymore. I think that there is nothing wrong with it. In fact, I think it is necessary for it to be legalized in order to protect the rights of same sex couples. For example, without gay marriage, many same sex couples would not have visitation rights in hospitals. They also probably would not be able to file their taxes jointly and get other benefits that married couples can get. I also think that by legalizing gay marriage it would help to reduce the bigotry that is out there against same sex couples and those who deal with same sex attraction. I think we can all agree that there is too much hatred out there for people who deal with it. I am not blaming Catholics for this hatred. I am saying that the hatred exists among the general population and I think that legalizing gay marriage would help to reduce that hatred because people would get used to the reality of gay marriage and as they are more exposed to it they would realize that same sex couples are not as bad as they thought they were originally. Its just that there are a lot of stereotypes out there and I think that legalization of same sex marriage could help to reduce that stereotypes and stigma by showing people the reality of same sex relationships and such.

So anyway, I know that there are a lot of religious reasons for being opposed to same sex marriage but I live in the United States and laws cannot be based on religion here because of the separation of church and state. I am all for separation of church and state. I think it would be incredibly stupid to start creating laws based on religious teachings. So, if you will defend the teaching of the Catholic Church that same sex marriage is wrong and should be illegal then please try to rely on arguments that are not exclusively religious in nature because those don’t hold much sway with me.

Since you seem to put so much faith in the law, what law says church and state are separate?

What if the teaching is based on reality, rather than what you claim to be religion?

How is what sways you, of any consequence to the truths of the situation?

It is common knowledge that there is a separation of church and state in the United States and therefore I am not going to debate you on the separation of church and state.

If the teaching is based on reality then defend it.

Also, I never said that what sways me is of any consequence to the truths of the situation. It is just my opinion that the truths of the situation are such that same sex marriage should be legal.

So there is no law. Good. Thanks for demonstrating that this just a club to beat those who are working on promoting a just society by instilling morality into the rules of the nation.

If the teaching is based on reality then defend it.

See the Catechism beginning at article 1601.

Also, I never said that what sways me is of any consequence to the truths of the situation. It is just my opinion that the truths of the situation are such that same sex marriage should be legal.

Why did you post you opinion if you didn’t intend to sway your readers?

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

That’s a place to start. I realize that you said something religious wouldn’t sway you, but I think maybe there’s something wrong with that statement.

Regardless of whether the government of the United States chooses to recognize these unions, we as Catholics cannot. We are not necessarily always going to agree with the teachings of the Church, but we must accept and respect them.

In doing so, we trust that the Church knows what is right and just for our mortal souls, even if it goes against what the secular world declares is right and just.

Welcome! :wave:

First, here’s my book recommendation on the topic: Getting the Marriage Conversation Right: A Guide for Effective Dialogue. It covers all these issues from a non-religious viewpoint. If you want a fuller explanation, I highly recommend checking it out.

You have given a lot of emotive reasons for making gay marriage legal, but nothing that would compel the state to change the way that marriage has been defined and understood for all of human history. And that is the core issue. Things like hospital visitation rights are distractions (and it isn’t even an issue anymore) as there are plenty of other ways to solve that problem without same sex marriage.

It all comes down to what marriage is. Our modern society wants to define marriage as the State seal of approval on a romantic relationship between two consenting adults. If that’s the definition we are operating from, then same sex marriage makes perfect sense.

But that’s not what marriage is. What gets lost in the conversation is children. All children have a mom and a dad. That is simply a matter of biology. It doesn’t matter if the child was conceived via in vitro fertilization, surrogacy, or the natural way. The kid has DNA from a man and a woman – the child’s mother and father.

And every child has a right to know their mother and father and be raised in a stable home by that mother and father. It is instinctual. Children long to know their parents. To know where they came from.

Marriage is the only institution that safeguards and protects a child’s right to be created and raised by their mother and father.

When we start tinkering with the definition, we inevitably begin to objectify children. They are no longer the fruit of marriage but the commodified accessories of our romantic relationships. When that happens, we all suffer. Society as a whole suffers. This is what we are experiencing right now in our culture.

First of all any adult (unless they are unconscious) can determine who can visit them. If they are unconscious what they can do before hand is set up a legal (insert term here) I don’t know what it’s called but basically they speak for you legally on your behalf. You do not need marriage to cover you.

Biologically, people of the same sex are not sexually complementary like heterosexual people. Diseases like anal cancer do not occur with normal sex.

Marriage is an institution that is more than just the couple. Teenagers in love do not get married nor receive marriage benefits. Single women do not receive benefits. People cohabiting do not receive benefits.

The reason people want same sex “marriage” legalized is because we would be saying it is perfectly fine. It is not. Same sex “couples” are disordered. Straight people are sexually attracted to each other because naturally sex produces babies, babies keeps the human race going. It is natural. Same sex relationships are not natural.
For example if a sister and brother fell “in love” no one would say it is bigotry to oppose that or that it is not as bad as we think it is. Their so called love is a disordered version of what it should be.

Finally as a Catholic you should not be trying to fight for something that offends God. God created marriage, we don’t get to change that. I know you do not want a religious argument but you should not even agree with any homosexual behavior.

Laws do indeed enforce morality on people. Murder, theft, physical and material harm or abuse, etc. These are all moral laws that stem from universal laws given to all mankind. Even when people will disagree about the ultimate lawgiver (God), they readily accept that these laws are and should be practiced universally.

It is a universal law that sexual activity has one primary goal which is procreation. Secondary to that is unity and last pleasure. The institution of Marriage is to provide for the primary goal of sex, namely for giving the children a safe, stable, loving family in which to grow up. Marriage is primarily about caring for the children that result, and not about individuals coming together for unity and pleasure for their own sake. Many people (hetero and homo sexual) forsake the primary goal (procreation) for the secondary goals (unity and pleasure). And when they forsake the primary goal of sex, they also lose the basic nature of what marriage actually is, and what it is for. They also lose the basic purpose of why there are marriage laws (beneficial or not) in the first place.

The beneficial marriage laws are to help ensure that children can be raised in a stable environment. True, these laws benefit the parents, but in benefitting the parent, it benefits the child who is their responsibility. However, the government could take away all marriage benefits and that would not change what marriage is. Marriage is the institution that protects the family life especially children. The government enacts laws that also protect the stability of the family life for the good of society in general. Same sex marriage however is more about obtaining the benefits. The government could give those same benefits to anyone just by passing a law, but they are wrong to call this marriage. In calling it marriage, instead of raising up same sex couples to the dignity of the institution of marriage, they have lowered what marriage is. Instead of marriage being a covenant between one man and one woman for the sake of them raising a family for life, marriage by law (in some places) is now simply a legal way to obtain benefits. True, some homosexual people do have biological children, and the government should do what they can to protect those children and parents. Legalizing same sex marriage is not the way to do that.

You mentioned many legal issues. I think the government should acknowledge the civil union of the gay, but never uses the word “marriage”. Marriage is established by God as a Sacrament according to God’s law. The Bible clearly teaches about the sinfulness of homosexuality. While the government could give legal rights of the gay relationship for practical purposes, Church should never change the truth from the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, as well as the Catechism. Who are we to change God’s law?

if you were catholic, and you don’t believe catholic teaching, that makes you…:confused:

To quote Ed Peters:

In the West (yes, I know Eastern Christianity thinks differently, but that problem is for another day), it has been settled matter among all Christians (though secular elements of the West do not realize that Christian thought has permeated their consciousness, too), it has been, as I say, settled matter in the West that the consent of the parties establishes marriage. If you think that the State made up marriage and confers it on a couple, or if you think that the Church created and bestows marriage on believers, or that God, or Zeus, or the Big Cosmic Other sends this thing called marriage on two people who want it, or if you hold any other theory of marriage whatsoever, besides that the consent of the parties makes marriage—then you need to stop reading this blog post and start studying solid treatises on marriage going back to the ancient Romans in some cases, and virtually everything since the 13th century, secular and religious alike.

Full blog post here.

Calming that two people of the same sex can enter in to any kind of union is a lie in and of its self. No matter how close they can get to imitating the pro-creative sexual union of a man and a woman they can’t do it. It is simply impossible. There are no practical purpose for the state to pretend like there is a union where none can exist.

As far as the law and taxes.

Why do married couples get tax breaks?

Do you know why? It’s not for the fun of it, there is a reason.

It’s no more discriminatory to say gay people can’t have a marriage tax break, then for me to say I don’t get some corporate tax break.

Tax breaks serve a purpose. I would suggest you learning why married couples receive tax breaks. If you can’t understand that, then your too far down the wrong path.

I am also curious why only 8 years ago you were ok saying “I believe all the Catholic Church professes and teaches to be revealed by God”. But now you deny this statement you made and instead say “I believe all that I understand and agree with to be revealed by God”

One statement puts the authority in God and his church. The other places it in you, and regarding this issue, with popular opinion.

Gods not interested in popular opinion (see Noah story, or Lot and Sodom, or Jonah and Ninevah, etc)

actually, i thought there was a marriage tax penalty?

I can agree that Noah, Jonah and Lot and Sodom are all STORIES, I don’t believe they literally happened.

Marriage means different things to different people. Some marry for love, some marry for money, power, citizenship, benefits, you name it. But that fact that remains is that these people can marry, just as any 2 consenting adults should be able to marry.

Thus, in my personal opinion, and thankfully millions of millions like me, gay marriage is not wrong and will soon be legal in all 50 states. :thumbsup:

And for all the haters out there: If you don’t like gay marriage, or think it’s wrong, don’t marry a gay person. Thank you very much.

peace and love to all.

being against homosexual marriage is not ‘hateful’, it’s helpful.

The separation of Church and state was because the state was interfering with Church matters. It wasn’t the other way around.

You want them to have legal privileges. What about a dad who has an adult daughter at home with disabilities? How about an adult woman who has her mom living with her because of mobility issues? What about an adult having a dependent brother with him? What about a parent with a teen daughter and baby? Grandparents with grandchildren because the parents aren’t available? Life is complicated.

Why should marriage be skewed around to accommodate 2 men who are free to live together and can say vows before friends and family, without messing with marriage? They are the ones interfering with Church matters to accommodate their own agenda. Changing the meaning of marriage is forcing the Church to accommodate something she cannot. And it’s opening the legal system to sue the Church for not accommodating them. It suits their purpose to look like they are being unfairly treated by intolerant people but be sure they will sue and not extend tolerance to people who don’t agree with them or are in a position to accommodate them. There is a war going on and the devil is cunning and crafty. This isn’t the only battle being raged against marriage and family life, only one front of many.

You realize this is a catholic thread, discussing church teaching and why we cannot disagree with such teaching and be catholic.

I would not expect you as a Buddhist to believe the bible, anymore than I would believe that Siddhārtha Gautama, is anything more than a mentally ill man or mythical person.

All I know is I make the same money now as when I was married and I pay double the taxes.

the constitution provides that the state will make no national religion. it was intended to keep the government from persecuting religions they didn’t like. as they unfortunately are doing now.

Yes I believe God is love and that love is all that truly matters. I am not, however, blindyly loyal to any religion, even Buddhism. I am here to express my opinion and to try and open peoples’ minds a bit, just an inch, from whatever hateful brainwashing that has been forced upon them.

I believe it’s wrong to think any religion could never be wrong sometimes.

And I believe it’s even more wrong to justify hate or discrimination “in the name of God.”

That’s my opinion, of course I could be wrong. Now can YOU admit the Church could be wrong about Gay Marriage? Just maybe?

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