Police ID officers involved 12-year-old's shooting


#1

** Police ID officers involved 12-year-old’s shooting **

msn.com/en-us/news/us/police-id-officers-involved-12-year-olds-shooting/ar-BBfWkRo

CLEVELAND — The family of a 12-year-old Cleveland boy fatally shot by a police officer responding to a call about someone with a gun says police acted too quickly and his death could’ve been avoided.

A statement released Wednesday evening by attorneys for Tamir Rice’s family says the family has viewed a surveillance video of the shooting and thanks the city for releasing it publicly.

The video shows Tamir carrying an airsoft gun that shoots non-lethal plastic pellets. Police say the officer who shot him fired within 2 seconds of pulling up in his cruiser.

We have been advised to speak about the topic at hand and not having a lot of spill-over discussion concerning other stories and issues. Thus, I post this story on Tamir Rice, really could have been posted a few days ago. I have watched 6 minutes of video online which showed the boy with the realistic looking pistol gun in the park and a bystander, someone at the park called in and said they were very scared. I watched the video but the shooting to me without devoting a lot of time to it, is somewhat obscured by the police car though you can see in general what is going on.


#2

I have to go with the cops on this one though I often question their actions. The gun certain looked real. Also, toy guns come with an orange piece of plastic so cops can know the difference – in this case it was either removed or came off at some point.

From the video it appears the cop shot almost immediately after exiting his car but claims he yelled, “Get down!” twice. Problem is that when innocent civilians are yelled at by cops their first reaction is probably, “What the hell? I’m not doing anything wrong.”


#3

This looks really bad to me, as Tamir Rice was shot within 2 seconds of the police arriving and it brings into question how the officer(s) could have given lawful commands and determined they were not obeyed in that little time.


#4

So the police have identified the officers but their names it appears to me, have not been made public yet.

Cleveland is quite north on Lake Erie; so I would not make any assumptions about the officers who did this.


#5

Officers’ names identified in the Daily Mail:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2852119/Family-12-year-old-black-boy-shot-killed-white-police-officer-holding-toy-gun-plead-supporters-stay-peaceful-amid-fears-violent-protests.html

The dispatch call, can you imagine this, according to the DM did not tell the officers the gun was probably fake.


#6

Me too. Let’s assume in those 2 seconds the police did say to the boy hold your hands up - a 12 yr old out playing, possibly frightened out of his wits at the police suddenly appearing and in a completely self absorbed daydream state - he would easily get flustered and just stand there frozen OR do something totally stupid, like possibly go to remove the toy gun from his trousers to show it was a toy - I mean who knows what went through the child’s mind, at that point.

It is excellent that the incident was videoed, released and picked up by the MSM.


#7

This looks bad, I assume the lad pointed his pistol.

If I pointed something that looks like a real pistol at police officers, I would expect the worse, though I’m not excusing their behavior here. In ways, this is worse than the other case. Cleveland probably does have a rather diverse police force, I saw some pictures of the Police Department’s news conference with the mayor there.


#8

When I look at the picture, one thing that stands out is the way the police cruiser pulled up right next to the gazebo/picnic area. So I’m not calling protocol wrong here, I just wonder what proper protocol would be. It seems they pulled up right next to him. I’d think a police department should actually stealthily come up on such an individual.

And may I add; come up to on foot.

Again, plenty of pictures at the daily mail website: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2852119/Family-12-year-old-black-boy-shot-killed-white-police-officer-holding-toy-gun-plead-supporters-stay-peaceful-amid-fears-violent-protests.html

Coming into the picture as fast as the police did could certainly startle someone.

Wham they are there, as long as I’m editing this, here is this excerpt from the Daily Mail:

Cleveland police officers were alerted to the park after a man called 911 on Wednesday afternoon. He told the dispatcher that he had seen a man, who was wearing a camo hat and a gray jacket, waving a gun around.

‘The guy keeps pulling it out,’ he said on the call. 'It’s probably fake, but you know what, he’s scaring the s*** out of (inaudible).

'He’s sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people.

'Probably a juvenile, you know?

‘I don’t know if it’s real or not, you know?’’

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2852119/Family-12-year-old-black-boy-shot-killed-white-police-officer-holding-toy-gun-plead-supporters-stay-peaceful-amid-fears-violent-protests.html#ixzz3KOAwfECH


#9

That is something discussed in this news report with an expert. Ideally, they shouldn’t have come in as close.

wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/26/tim-dimoff/19531071/


#10

Well, they didn’t do the ‘ideal’ so a child is dead.


#11

Right. And, your point is?

The child may have still been dead, depending on escalation and reaction. The approach is only part of the tragedy. They need to fully investigate the incident. I can wait until that is done before jumping to the “they should be fired and probably should charged with criminal negligence and possibly involuntary manslaughter.”


#12

My point is that he’s using an awfully polite word to describe how the police acted that resulted in a death. Here’s how you properly use ideally.

Ideally, it is good to have properly inflated tires so that you maximize your gas mileage.

Here’s how you don’t.

Ideally, it would be good to not put yourself into a situation without proper knowledge so you don’t have to use deadly force against an innocent person.


#13

The child might have ended up dead. Well, we’ll let pro-choicer use this in arguments now. You know, the child might have ended up miscarried.

I’m sorry, what I saw was beyond idiotic. They are the types of guys that would get their fellow soldiers killed in a war. You can wait for the investigation and that is fine. What I saw made me sick. Just sick.

You can have these clowns as police in your neighborhood then. Maybe your son wouldn’t ended up dead instead of disrespected by a police officer then. Or maybe you.


#14

IMO they will get prosecuted for this, but only because of the video evidence that has been publicised worldwide.

If there was no video evidence then possibly they would not as the case would be based on the word of the officers only.


#15

(sacarsm on) Obviousily, it is the child’s fault. What was he doing with a toy gun? Why was he playing in a park? Why didn’t he put his hands up when he say the police car come rushing in? (sarcarsm off)

Really?

I played with toy guns when I was a kid. We went to the park with out adult supervision.
No one called the police on us. The police didn’t come in, guns ablazing.


#16

Kid was a thug. Raised poorly. Part of the gangsta culture. Etc.


#17

And with all the violence in the world today, even from young kids, gangs etc. who knows what went thru the policeman’s mind at that moment. They have to confront very dangerous situations daily. Many of them life threatening. Let’s don’t jump to all kinds of conclusion about this. God Bless, Memaw


#18

Depends on whether the kid pointed the gun at the police. (I can’t tell from the video) Even at that close distance, the police couldn’t know that the gun was fake and would be working under the assumption that it was a real loaded weapon. When a real loaded weapon is pointed at you, it is kill or be killed. It also seems the police thought he was much older (20) than he was.

It is much easier to make these judgments after the fact when you have more information, but when you’re in the field, it’s not so easy.


#19

It’s pretty easy to make the judgment that the police officers went into the situation where they had put themselves into a great deal of danger if the child was in fact armed with a weapon, drastically cutting down on the time they would have to assess the situation where the kid was probably shot dead before he could process their command.

I’d hate to be in the field with guys like this on the force with me. Good way to get someone killed, which is exactly what happened.


#20

The 911 call also put the officers in this situation; there is responsibility that goes around.

A person, diligent citizen calls in and summarizing “There’s someone in the park pointing a gun at people when they walk by, he looks to be a juvenile and the gun is probably fake.”

From there, the police from the dispatcher may have gotten a message and it wouldn’t surprise me if the police would use the most stern concise language possible “We got a call that someone is in the park pointing a gun/pistol at people when they walk by.”

This seems to have contributed to the situation as well.

Sounds like some guidelines may well be needed.

Oh, and the park should have been sealed off as well, something like this.

And part of the description was someone wearing a “gray jacket and camouflage hat”, that part seems to add something to the recipe of a disaster as well here, meaning the camouflage hat part.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.