Yes I’m working on that as well. East or West?
[POLL] Would you rather (1) Orthodox Constantinople (only) OR (2) ALL Lutheran denominations re-unite with the Catholic Church?
Yes I’m working on that as well. East or West?
Agree with this. Plus it is how I think it WILL go down.
Then there are others on here expressing that it’s virtually for impossible Lutherans to agree and act as a common communion, whereas at least with an individual Orthodox Church (“Church” as in particular church, i.e., the head bishop with his entire peoples — even the Patriarch of Constantinople and his fold).
I voted for Orthodoxy even though I’m a former Lutheran, primarily because some Lutheran groups are no longer orthodox Lutherans.
Why didn’t you nuance it to specifically Confessional Lutherans?
Initially I felt that, no matter how I phrased it, Orthodoxy would have the upper-hand. To many Catholics, it’s a more prominent and flashy schism. So I tried as much as I could to promote the alternative option – ALL Lutheran bodies.
I never said either would be realistic—especially soon; but I am asking what you would rather see happen.
And if I didn’t nuance Orthodoxy – but said ALL Eastern Orthodoxy – it would probably have been 100% for that option.
Nothing. Most Protestants who are not Lutheran are not Lutheran for a reason.
Okay. I gave my response above.
I wanted an interesting discussion, and this thread is showing that to be so!
But I wonder what it would be like if I gave these options instead:
(1) Eastern Orthodox Church in Constantinople
OR (2) ALL of Oriental Orthodoxy
Maybe a closer call?
Because of the nature of Protestantism, especially in America, I’m not sure if Lutheran communion would even be significant. Most Protestant bodies operate independently, anyway. That being said, Orthodox communion may go unnoticed in the West (except from Catholic hierarchs and intellectuals, or general history buffs), because many people in the West don’t even know anything about Orthodoxy!
Of course, this reflection is merely based on the optics of the thing.
From an American point of view, I think if the poll had been a choice of what we would rather see, between all of the Orthodox Church or all mainstream/evangelical Christians, the debate would be very interesting. I don’t think either the Orthodox or Lutherans have such a huge presence in America that it would change too much if they converted.
However, if the majority of Protestants in America converted…THAT would draw some serious attention.
If the autocephalous churches don’t break communion with Constantinopole over the reunification then they are authomatically in communion with Rome.
As the single Latin EO country I expect our own Patriarch of Romania to be pleased by it and to also make sure our country is the focal point of this reunion.
Pope Francis may come next year to Bucharest it is said. He has been officially invited for sure.
When combined, Lutheranism is the third largest denomination in America, trailing Baptist and Methodist
The Orthodox could/should actively strive for unity within their own ranks - more than exists now. Not to use the “L” word, but they range from mild-to-wild and it seems that many if not most of them will simply die off due to attrition. Some denominations have become little more than the “Church of what’s happening now.” Old Flip Wilson gag.
As I stated, when the blood flows as high as the horse’s bridle, unity will be far easier to achieve.
Blessings upon Patriarch Bartholomew for his heart of unity!
Surely those are Calvinist doctrines, not Lutheran?
Kind of both. Both thought that we are absolutely unable to please God. Both thought we were totally depraved - only by faith we becomes snow-covered piles of dung. But still dung.
Aside from the weird theology, they had some genuine self-esteem problems!
Just a few days ago I read the same prophecy, almost word for word, on another website. It was a Calvinist in Iowa proudly telling Episcopalians, Anglicans, Catholics, Lutherans, Orthodox and all other reprobates that we are doomed, doomed.
And here all along, I thought that judgment was Christ’s! Sadly, the so-called reformation placed the burden of salvation on God, requiring less and less of us. Thus, we see the arrogance begin to rise.
One may indeed wonder: if they are “saved” without any charitable works, how are Catholics condemned by them? Apparently, they failed to notice that every single scriptural reference - without exception - to our judgment deals with our works.
James 2 is in their bibles, but they don’t stop by for a visit very often. He must have been Catholic or something.
If it ever occurred, I think most of the schisms that have ever occurred would end.
You may want to read up on the Porvoo communion, which is apprx the Anglican and Scandinavian Lutheran churches of Europe in communion with each other.
As I see it, I’d love to see some of the tears of the Reformation patched up. But that requires the RCC to make concessions and changes, too, and since that’s not likely to happen I’m not holding my breath. Currently it’s like a family meditation where one spouse crosses his/her arms and won’t budge, and that won’t change anything.
I agree though I’d modify the players in this analogy a bit:
The whole family is in therapy. One spouse won’t budge (the Orthodox) one is all the more willing (the Catholic) while turning to the child and saying “mind your manners and do exactly as you’re told” (the historical Protestant). For a long time the Catholic Church saw Easterners as subservient to Rome and it’s only been in the last 50 or so years that she has really seen them as being partners in Christendom. She’s still a little more stubborn when it comes to the Protestants, whom it appears to me she still sees as disobedient children. Perhaps in another 500 years everyone involved will wise up a bit more.