[POLL] Would you rather (1) Orthodox Constantinople (only) OR (2) ALL Lutheran denominations re-unite with the Catholic Church?


#102

You can work on continuing your self satisfying disunity with Luther, but Lutherans don’t reference Bondage of the Will for their understanding of free will. They reference the Augsburg Confession
http://bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php#article18

The response by the Roman Confutation says in response:

In the eighteenth article they confess the power of the Free Will - viz. that it has the power to work a civil righteousness, but that it has not, without the Holy Ghost, the virtue to work the righteousness of God. This confession is received and approved. For it thus becomes Catholics to pursue the middle way, so as not, with the Pelagians, to ascribe too much to the free will, nor, with the godless Manichaeans, to deny it all liberty; for both are not without fault. …

http://bookofconcord.org/confutatio.php#article18


#103

The Orthodox rejected the Melkite proposal as well…


#104

I’d personally love to see all the Lutherans come back to the one true Church. I was originally baptized Lutheran so it just means something more to me I guess. Original Lutheranism doesn’t even seem too far off from Catholicism (you know, “high church” Lutheranism like they have more in Sweden). It can’t be all that difficult for them to come back! Like Anglicans. The Catholic Church, I don’t think, was in the right during the Reformation…great sin was happening because you could buy indulgences and such. However, I wish Luther would have reformed within the Church rather than breaking off from it entirely. That’s just caused a horrible precedent.


#105

Again, if you’re unwilling to hear the Lutheran or Orthodox views of things, or take them into consideration, what value is the discussion, other than to bash or misrepresent.
To make the conscious choice in the poll, on must have a basic understanding of their views.


#106

I don’t think one can say that the Catholic Church (only) was in the wrong during the Reformation era. Blame is borne by all involved.
The sad thing about Lutheranism and Anglicanism is the pockets of error that have taken hold, as Charles Porterfield Krauth explains here:

https://steadfastlutherans.org/2012/04/charles-porterfield-krauths-three-steps-to-doctrinal-and-ecclesial-nihilism/


#107

Huh?:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

From a Catholic perspective, the Lutheran Church does not have all 7 valid sacraments whereas the Orthodox do.

As I said in my response, to bring Lutherans into union with the Catholic Church would mean that they had access to all 7 valid sacraments.

What is missing that would prevent a Catholic from answering the poll question?


#108

I responded to your quote :
“I went with Lutheran because of the lack of access to sacraments”

They would simply disagree. They would argue they have access to the means of grace found in word and sacrament. That basic understanding, just like Lutherans need to recognize the Catholic POV you’ve described, Is foundational.
Without the mutual understanding of differences, nothing more can be done


#109

And with no followup of the Melkite proposal on either side, I guess that the will and desire needed for reunion is not there.


#110

Let’s go back to the OP’s question: “Just a fun thought experiment.

IF you were alive for the day, which would you rather see, and why? What do you think the significance would be?”

I answered the question as written.

It seems you’d like a discussion of Catholic vs. Lutheran views on the sacraments. Sounds like a good subject for another thread.


#111

No mention of only the Catholic perspective, either. The question implies an accurate understanding of all three communions. Go from there


#112

When a Catholic asks who would you rather see “reunite with the Catholic Church” the perspective is pretty clear.

Additionally, why does my answer to a hypothetical question asking for our opinions need to be governed by your thought process in order to be an acceptable response?

It’s my opinion. You don’t have to agree with me, and I’m not going to change just because you disagree.


#113

Not when it isn’t stated as such, is on the non-Catholics forum, and includes specifically two other communions. If you want it specifically a Catholic perspective, put the thread on the Traditional Catholic forum.

It doesn’t. Neither does it necessarily get the privilege of standing without challenge. It is, after all, a public forum.

Good, but the lurkers now know your opinion is not shared by Lutherans.


#114

I’m not Lutheran. My opinion (regarding valid sacraments) is the opinion of the Catholic Church. I don’t know why any reasonable person would think I was speaking for Lutherans. I am also not the only one to articulate Church position in this thread.

This is absurd.


#115

I didn’t say you were speaking for Lutherans. I simply responded with the Lutheran view.
Again, if you don’t want the other views, the thread shouldn’t be on the nonCatholic forum.


#116

Elpidophoros Lambriniadis, Metropolitan of Bursa has been identified at a successor by speculators.


#117

Your last sentence is factually incorrect.

I worded it wrong. What I meant was name a doctrine that the Church has changed
TheEucharistIsTheBodyBloodSoulAndDIvinityOfJesusChrist


#118

The filioque.


#119

Thank you. That’s good news! Are there any Russians among the “speculators”?


#120

As far as I know, lutherans need full convertion in order to come to the Church, because it isn’t just a schism, but a full set of complicated issues.

On the other hand, I guess Russian Orthodox church need only to accept the “Filioque” (Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son), the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, and some disciplinary things.


#121

Elpidophoros Lambriniadis wrote:

Two points are worth noting from the outset, which are indicative of the intent of the Church of Russia’s Synod: First, its desire to undermine the text of Ravenna, … Second, challenge in the most open and formal manner (namely, by synodal decree) the primacy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate within the Orthodox world …

See: https://www.patriarchate.org/-/primus-sine-paribus-hapantesis-eis-to-peri-proteiou-keimenon-tou-patriarcheiou-moschas-tou-sebasmiotatou-metropolitou-prouses-k-elpidophorou


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