Polygamists from other cultures entering the Church


#1

I don’t think people who come from other cultures that allow for polygamy should be made to divorce any of their spouses when entering the Church.

What do you think?


#2

Polygamy is against the law in this country so I’d say he’d have to make a choice as to which wife is the one he wants to keep. Only one wife is allowed at a time for which I am glad. I wouldn’t want to share my husband with anyone!


#3

Polygamy and polyandry are against the Law of God. So, yes, of course it must be repudiated to become a member of the Body of Christ just as any other practice not in conformity to the Gospel must be renounced.

Canon Law speaks to this:

Can. 1148 §1. When he receives baptism in the Catholic Church, a non-baptized man who has several non-baptized wives at the same time can retain one of them after the others have been dismissed, if it is hard for him to remain with the first one. The same is valid for a non-baptized woman who has several non-baptized husbands at the same time.

§2. In the cases mentioned in §1, marriage must be contracted in legitimate form after baptism has been received, and the prescripts about mixed marriages, if necessary, and other matters required by the law are to be observed.

§3. Keeping in mind the moral, social, and economic conditions of places and of persons, the local ordinary is to take care that the needs of the first wife and the others dismissed are sufficiently provided for according to the norms of justice, Christian charity, and natural equity.


#4

Where does the Bible forbid polygamy? :shrug:

Luther On Polygamy**

“I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture” (De Wette II, 459).

Hope this helps. :tiphat:


#5

[FONT=Georgia]He answered, "Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5* and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? * 6 So they are no longer two but one. * What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.

Matthew 19:4-6 [/FONT]
Note that Jesus says the two shall become one, not the three or four or whatever shall become one.


#6

Matthew 16:19 is the first reference that comes to mind.


#7

Let me put it this way–If Jacob time-traveled to today and wanted to join the church, would you make him divorce Leah or Rachel?


#8

When a man and woman are married they become ‘one flesh’. If a man marries another wife does he not break the bond with the first and commit adultry?


#9

Adultery is having relations with someone who isn’t your spouse.


#10

Seen any polygamists joining the church lately?

Is this some sort of rhetorical question?


#11

The Church requires anyone who is in a polygamous situation to retain only one wife when they become a baptized Catholic because polygamy is an abomination before God. God created marriage as a union between one man and one woman, exclusive for life.

There is no ambiguity here so I’m not sure why you have asked this question.


#12

It does happen in African countries and with Muslim converts. It is still relevant today, but Canon Law already covers the situation.


#13

And, a person can only validly marry one time, therefore they can only have one spouse. The others are not true spouses.


#14

Who or what tells you who is or isn’t your spouse?


#15

:ehh:

That’s not like… obvious? I varies by culture, but usually it goes something like this:

Will you marry me?
Yes.
Let’s get dressed up and go get married in front of friends and family.
OK
Afterwards, we will live together, have kids, and stuff.
OK
And we will live together, taking care of each other for the rest of our lives.
OK


#16

If it is “culture” who decides as you say, then in the US it is the law which tells us we are truly married?
If so, then a man or woman can divorce and remarry as many times as they wish and God would thus recognize that new marriage as now the valid and true marriage because of the “culture?”

And if “culture” is the final arbiter of a true marriage, then if a man has four wifes in Africa, immigrates to America, but US law doesn’t recognize polygamy, which “culture” would correct?

but usually it goes something like this:

Will you marry me?
Yes.
Let’s get dressed up and go get married in front of friends and family.
OK
Afterwards, we will live together, have kids, and stuff.
OK
And we will live together, taking care of each other for the rest of our lives.
OK

You’ve just described courtship, not whether a couple actually has a valid marriage.


#17

Matthew 19:6 "…So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
Earthly authority does play a role in marriage.
Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Authorities are from God. If an authority recognizes a marriage, it is as if God joined them together. If an authority recognizes a polygamous marriage, it is still as if God joined them together. Let no man separate them, especially as a condition upon entering the Church.

What about divorce? It is a good question that Jesus also had an answer to.
Matthew 19:7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

And if “culture” is the final arbiter of a true marriage, then if a man has four wifes in Africa, immigrates to America, but US law doesn’t recognize polygamy, which “culture” would correct?

Polygamists are not legally allowed to immigrate into the USA. They are not under the earthly authority of the USA.

You’ve just described courtship, not whether a couple actually has a valid marriage.

Many people would disagree. The couple, the witnesses, and the earthly authority that recognized the marriage. You declare they aren’t married?


#18

**[Angainor;2867128]**Matthew 19:6 “…So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” Earthly authority does play a role in marriage.

Earthly authorities do NOT supercede God’s immutable truth. What God has joined together means what God approves of, but your position is that any contradicting Earthly government are all approved by God even thought their positions are diamentrically opposed to one another. Polygamy is either God approved or it is not; murder is either allowable or not. What if a country allows child abuse, would God also approve that government since according to your position on Romans 13:1 “authorities are from God?”

[FONT=Verdana][size=1]Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

[/size][/FONT]Romans 13:1 is speaking about God allowing in His permissive will certain governments to exist for His divine plan; this is far different from God approving in His active will all of their laws, when some of them i.e., polygamy are immoral. If an Earthly law violates God’s law then it is God’s law that we should follow because it supercedes mere human civil law.
Using your rational, it would be acceptable to both allow polygamy and not allow polygamy and God would approve both contradicting laws?

Authorities are from God.

No, authorities are permitted to exist by God, this is
a far cry from saying all of their laws are approved by God. You are arguing that communism is approved by God since “authorities are from God.” And Islamic countries abide by Islamic law, allow polygamy, ergo God approves of them?:rolleyes:

If an authority recognizes a marriage, it is as if God joined them together. If an authority recognizes a polygamous marriage, it is still as if God joined them together. Let no man separate them, especially as a condition upon entering the Church.

No that is false. What you are saying is governmental laws = God’s immutable truths which is false.

What about divorce? It is a good question that Jesus also had an answer to.Matthew 19:7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Well, this isn’t the forum for a discussion on divorce. God didn’t allow it in the begining because it has always been an immutable truth, He only allowed it because of the "hardness of heart"
as Jesus is affirming in Mt 19:7. Protestants only know they are married or not by the civil law which almost never in line with God’s truth on divorce.

Polygamists are not legally allowed to immigrate into the USA. They are not under the earthly authority of the USA.

Right, so then which of the governments that have the authority of God according to you are correct?

Many people would disagree. The couple, the witnesses, and the earthly authority that recognized the marriage. You declare they aren’t married?

Whether or not people disagree is irrelevant. People disagree on abortion,does that sanction its use? That people disagree is purely subjectivism.
The Catholic Church presumes a marriage inacted in a civil or other manner is valid until it can be proven otherwise this is what canon law says. If it is shown as a valid marriage in the eyes of God (aka sacramental marriage) then it is unbreakable unless one of the spouses dies.


#19

The Holy Father wrote on this recently:

The indissoluble, exclusive and faithful bond uniting Christ and the Church, which finds sacramental expression in the Eucharist, corresponds to the basic anthropological fact that man is meant to be definitively united to one woman and vice versa (cf.* Gen* 2:24,* Mt *19:5). With this in mind, the Synod of Bishops addressed the question of pastoral practice regarding people who come to the Gospel from cultures in which polygamy is practised. Those living in this situation who open themselves to Christian faith need to be helped to integrate their life-plan into the radical newness of Christ. During the catechumenate, Christ encounters them in their specific circumstances and calls them to embrace the full truth of love, making whatever sacrifices are necessary in order to arrive at perfect ecclesial communion. The Church accompanies them with a pastoral care that is gentle yet firm, (90) above all by showing them the light shed by the Christian mysteries on nature and on human affections.
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html


#20

Bishopite,

Jacob was married to both Leah and Rachel. At the same time. Really. The bible says so.

This always seemed weird to me. A given couple can’t ever be sure if their marriage is “valid” or not.

If I was a Catholic, the first thing I would do after getting married is to go through annulment proceedings. If the priests came back with the news that, yes, I really am married, I would then breath easier. I would hate to go years thinking I was married only to find out I was wrong the whole time.


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