Pontifical Mass at St Mary's Cathedral Sydney

“To implement the Motu Proprio ‘Summorum Pontificum’ His Eminence George Cardinal Pell, Archbishop of Sydney will celebrate Pontifical Mass at the Throne according to the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite at St Mary’s Cathedral on Saturday November 3rd at 10 a.m.”

This quote is from the flyer that was included with the weekly bulletin of the FSSP Mass I go to.

It doesn’t matter how or by what means, I am going to do whatever it takes to be at this Mass in the Cathedral on November 3!

Will anyone else be going? It’s a long way for most CAFers around here, but I know a few who hail from this neck of the woods! Come along if you possibly can and let the good Cardinal see that people have a devotion to the Extraordinary Form.

God bless Cardinal Pell!!

Link to the Sydney Archdiocese site with info on the Cathedral

sydney.catholic.org.au/Cathedral/desc.shtml

Below:St Marys Cathedral Sydney - left pic is from across Hyde Park and right pic is from 1000ft above the city with a 10x optical zoom (my photos)

I live fairly close by, but have zero interest in attending the TLM. I’m very glad it’s being offered for those who do want it, though.

I was fortunate enough to attend an NO Mass celebrated by Cardinal Pell last Sunday - received Communion from him and got to greet him as I left and everything - he’s awesome.

I am originally from Sydney and I head up there around 6 times a year and I have always wanted to go to St. Mary’s Cathedral, but no one will come along with me and I’m too codependent to go all the way from the west of sydney (where I normally stay) to the heart of Sydney alone. I imagine it would be a beautiful service.

Have you actually been to one Lily? Your tone comes across as aggresive towards the Traditional Mass. Be careful you don’t sin against the First Commandment in dismissing Sacred Liturgy in such a casual and off hannded manner.

Are you threatened by the Traditional Mass in some way? You have taken many potshots at the EF on these forums. It becomes noticeable after a while.

Do you have zero interest in the Liturgy of the Traditional Mass that all of your ancestors were part of for countless centuries? The Cathedral itself was built as a place fit to celebrate this Mass.

If you have “zero interest” in it, why not leave it alone?

There are probably tourist groups you could go on tour with - at least see the Cathedral (and the rest of the city too) if not attend a service there.

lol, I’m not a tourist. Although I am from “the west” I have previously lived and worked just around the corner from St. Mary’s. The only reason for me to go there would be to attend a Mass, not to see it as a tourist attraction! :slight_smile:

I’ve seen TLMs, many times.

And the lack of interest and dismissiveness about Sacred Liturgy appears equally often from people such as yourself directed towards the NO, which is equally Sacred Liturgy if of a more recent variety.

Your potshot at it is one example, implying that I somehow must care about the TLM merely because of its older vintage, and that I am deficient in some way because fully satisfied by the equally valid and worthy NO, is one such example.

So it ain’t a one-way street by any means.

Regardless of what the Cathedral was built for, it is certainly a very beautiful and fitting place to celebrate the Ordinary Form as well as the Extraordinary. And is ennobled and graced beyond measure by the celebration on its altars of Mass of whatever form.

And leaving the EF alone is precisely what I intend to do - which is why I ain’t going, as I said.

That’s actually quite funny Lily!

Thank you thank you! I’m here all week, two shows a night … :wink:

Ha ha! Try the veal! :slight_smile:

I still think you are missing out by avoiding this Mass though. If it was the OF and was being celebrated by the Cardinal, would you go?

:slight_smile: The Cardinal DOES celebrate Solemn (sung) Mass of the OF there fairly regularly, it being his Cathedral and all :whistle:

I wouldn’t go just because it was him celebrating, nor just because it was Solemn Sung Mass.

I do go to the Cathedral fairly often because I know their masses are very beautifully and reverently done, Cardinal or no. Mind you there are one or two other churches around here that also do.

Like I said, I’ve seen enough TLMs to know what they’re about, so I’m not avoiding it out of ignorance.

I am rather surprised and a more than tad disappointed that you (LilyM) as a (fellow) Aussie and apparently someone who is a loyal Catholic and moreover can apparently attend Cardinal Pell’s forthcoming mass is taking such a high-handed and dismissive attitude to it. This will be a very important occasion for the Church and not just an opportunity to attend a solemn mass in the extraordinary rite.

Let us hope it is going to get a lot of publicity and through that once again help in its way to re-ignite the Catholic Church in Australia as the beacon on the hill marking it it out from the myriad of non-Catholic confusion, rampant protestant sects and atheistic materialism that characterises Australia today. (By the way this “beacon on the hill” is not just a metaphor, as in fact in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries at a time of greater Catholic militantism, many Australian Catholic churches were built on the highest plot of ground in every city and small town where ever they were established - meaning that no-one ever had any doubt about where the Catholic Church was in town). His Holiness’s visit to Sydney next year for World Catholic Youth day in July will of course be huge further boost through which Australians will be reminded of how the Catholic church is the one true Church.

Needless to say, as an Aussie who converted to the Catholic church (some years ago) not least because the mystery, beauty and dignity of the traditional mass helped fire up my faith and still does every time I attend it, I will be attending Cardinal Pell’s mass even though I do not live in Sydney - or anywhere near it. I hope to see you there Lily!

I’m sorry that the fact that I have a preference which is NOT for the TLM and express that preference comes across to you as high-handed and dismissive. I suppose you’d be offended if I said my favourite colour was fluorescent green instead of whatever yours is, and therefore I will stick to decorating my house in fluorescent green instead of in your favourite colour in future?

I certainly wouldn’t dream of taking your expressed preference for the TLM as being high-handed or dismissive of the NO. Neither, if I invited you to Cardinal Pell’s next NO and you chose to stick to your TLM, would I be offended in the slightest. Horses for courses.

I am very glad that there is now greater access to and publicity for the TLM for those who want it. And I am happy for you that you’ve found a liturgy which enriches your faith as the NO, reverently done, does for mine.

Just as I’m happy that you have the ability to decorate your house in your favourite colour, but in my own house I will continue to use MY favourite colour, not yours or anyone else’s.

I’ll be there! :slight_smile:

It is not a matter of colors (mere preference). It is a matter of which liturgy conveys the Faith in a greater way. I have no issue (though I disagree) if someone wishes to argue that the NO conveys the Catholic Faith in a more profound and better way than the TLM.

However, since the orientation (almost all the time) is different, the prayers are different, and along with that many more differences which are likely to be seen the two Masses are going to convey two different atmospheres of worship although both are valid. Thus one is going to convey the faith in a stronger and better way than the other. God bless.

Hi tradconvert. I will see you there, but will never know at precisely what point!

Lily, would you mind sharing with the forum why you don’t like the EF. As you say, you have never been to one, and watching one on a 2" x 3" picture window on youtube is hardly a substitute! Better than nothing I guess.

But why is it exactly you would deliberately avoid it?

Say for example you turned up unwittingly for Mass on the upcoming Saturday at the Cathedral. After a minute you realise with horror that it is the EF!! Would you flee to the nearest door?

Is it something to do with the headcovering or something?

I am curious as to why you are not interested in the slightest. I have noticed your tone on here when discussing this one issue.

I would like to add that your answers on CAF on many items of the Catholic faith are always very knowledgable, so I am not attacking you. :slight_smile:

I don’t know if Lilly had any axe to grind (knowing her from her postings, I would say not), but I would make this observation. “Traditionalists” in these fora freely disparge the OF, at length, not merely the way it is offered, but the rite itself. Lilly simply stated she had “zero interest” in attending the EF (other, perfectly orthodox Catholics feel the same way). She hasn’t said anything as remotely offensive as “traditionalists” have been toward the OF. Again, just an observation.

Thanks, and a good observation it is.
Yes, the issue is a very contentious one and it stirs people up on both sides. Each thinks his preferences are better, or he wouldn’t prefer them in the first place.

I have a certain respect for LilyM on here, and being one of the higher profile posters (Twelve thousand and how many posts??) it is hard to not see her around the traps whenever I get online.

She can often give a clear answer to many questions raised in a variety of discussions, which shows a thorough knowledge and study of our Catholic Faith.

It is no secret that I am very much in favour of the Traditional Liturgy due to it deepening my fervour for and devotion to the Mass.

When I reverted to the Church, I had never seen a Mass celebrated in the EF. All of my experience in returning to the Church was via the OF. In fact, my first Mass that I was able to receive Communion at was at a very, very liberal parish that I would avoid like the plague these days. The priest takes liberties with huge chunks of the Liturgy and is very dissenting towards Cardinall Pell.

So I am no enemy to the OF by a long shot.I would go to a lousy liberal Parish Mass before I would go to a SSPX Mass out of submission to the Church authorities who are much wiser than me. I simply find the EF more nourishing to my soul.

I often wonder why others do not see things like I do. Most people do the same, in my opinion, or they wouldn’t be on here putting forward their p.o.v. in a discussion.

If the EF and the OF were offered next door to each other every Sunday, I would go to the EF perhaps 99 times out of 100. I love the sense of the ancient, the greater sense of mystery, the deeper connection to the countless generations who lived and died by this Mass and the more reverent atmosphere the old Liturgy naturally brings about. Further, the Priest makes more thorough intercessions for those present at the EF Mass, and there is no better opportunity to plead with the Almighty than at Holy Mass. I love the many more external, graceful actions by the Priest. Apart from their intrinsic significance and beauty they provide wonderful opportunities for me to teach my three year old son about the differnent aspects of the Mass, climaxing in the silent Canon.

I do get the wonderful and providential opportunity to go to Mass two mornings per week. It is a beautiful OF Mass by a very reverent Priest. He is Catholic to the bone and is in his late thirties. And do you know what he did on Friday the 14th of September? His weekday Mass was in the EF. He has another very reverent Priest who fills in for him when he is away. A very holy, elderly priest whose life has had many supernatural and miraculous encounters, overcoming seemingly impossible problems with supernatural ease. I was speaking to him about the EF once and he said it is a “good and holy thing to have a devotion to the old Mass”. I love and respect the OF, and if it is good and holy enough for these good and holy priests, then it is good enough for me. I think in their hearts though they would prefer the EF, but that is only a guess based on my knowing them.

Whichever form it takes, Mass is always Mass, and I suppose I just have to let people go with whichever they like and find the most nourishing for their souls. After all, we are in the Catholic, Universal Church.

Thanks for your input Kirk.

I never assumed you were attacking me, darl. :slight_smile:

But seriously - horror? You’re well and truly misreading my attitude if you think I’d be horrified of or run from a TLM. I just wouldn’t choose to attend one when I have the option of an NO.

And in fact I have not only seen film of TLM, and never said I had only seen film :stuck_out_tongue: I was at the Cathedral a few months ago and they were in the midst of a Nuptial Mass celebrated according to the EF when I went in.

I ‘watched’ the Mass - in the sense that I wasn’t one of the guests, didn’t go up for Communion as I had walked in in the middle, and was there for the NO afterwards anyways.

It struck me as impressive certainly, but then lots of things are impressive. Beauty or grandeur of itself doesn’t impress me if I have no sense of the substance beneath.

I think that substance of the Mass and the sense of its meaning tends (sometimes) to get somewhat put to one side at the expense of having the form be ‘just so’ in the EF. In the OF, of course, it can veer in the opposite direction - the very lack of a strongly regulated form, among other things, leads to a loss of the sense of the Mass as well.

Truth be told, some of the features of the EF certainly don’t do anything for me at all. One comes uppermost to my mind. Why would I want a Mass that has either a silent Canon so that I can’t hear those blessed words ‘this is my body, this is my blood’ that effect the miracle of the altar, or else one where those words are said aloud, but in a language that isn’t my native tongue so that they are still obscure to me?

Jesus spoke to his Apostles in their (and His) native tongue, no other - He intended them to understand, as much as they could, what He was about!

To me THAT is the essence of the Mass, and yet in the EF it’s overshadowed by all the paraphernalia surrounding it. The fancy vestments, the obscurity of having a language not the vernacular, the repetitive, excessively padded and flowery prayers (three Confiteors or some such? Why on earth?) and gestures and so on. All the tizz and fuss.

This thread has gone way off topic. Please return to discussing the original topic or I will have to close the thread. Thank you, all.

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