Uh oh. This should cause quite the discussion.
Hmm. remarks in a documentary, and they might have been taken out of context, or need clarification, or be a translation issue, or something. For example, if there is a particular law that causes secular discrimination such as refusing to hire a person with regard to ‘sexual orientation’ I can see the need for a law to correct discrimination, or a tightening up of preexisting anti-discrimination laws. But Pope Francis is not, and never pretended to be, a lawyer.
Indeed I’m sure more is going to be made out of this than is necessary, given that it was one short statement the Pope made in a documentary and not done officially or in written form. CNA are not known to try to sensationalise though and they have covered this story.
There’s nothing per se contrary to the natural law for a “civil union” that amounts to a defined contractual relationship between two persons with certain rights and responsibilities recognized by the state.
Issues arise if that definition necessarily includes sexual activity and/or the scandal of appearing as a means to sanction relationships contrary to the natural law. And, if we’re honest, the latter is generally the intended purpose for these things where they have been tried. That is why the Church has opposed them up to this point. But a country with same-sex marriage on the books reverting back to civil unions would likely send the opposite message, which would be good.
In some places, same sex partners are not recognized as next-of-kin. In addition to inheritance rights, this has caused situations such as not being allowed at the bedside of a lifetime dying partner.
That’s what these laws aim to correct, and I fully support them. I no longer even care if it is called a civil marriage. I do recognize it can never be a sacramental marriage.
If the article is true, it’s a sign of the Holy Father’s humanity and pastoral wisdom. It only increases my admiration for him.
I think in many countries, the boat already sailed on civil-union law, but I don’t see a big problem with Pope Francis mentioning it, given that Catholic bishops of certain countries like UK already were advocating for such a law.
Nor do I see an issue with the Pope saying that gay people need pastoral care.
Here is the story from “America:”
“America” is going to have the Fr. James Martin bias attached to it.
Best to read the story someplace else, or just watch the documentary.
Then stick with the story in the OP. My feelings won’t be hurt.
That’s essentially what happens in France and other countries. It wouldn’t be an innovative solution, but it is a solution!
I’ve always supported the same sex civil unions idea. I believe if the Church had come out allowing this maybe we wouldn’t have the same sex marriage laws we do now.
I really see this as much ado about nothing in regards to the Church’s position on homosexuality. One can support it as a pastoral move without necessarily supporting homosexual acts themselves or gay marriage. I’m thinking of the examples @OraLabora gave.
But I will be annoyed for the next few days seeing the secular/liberal Catholic media talking about the supposed doctrinal shift on homosexuality, while CM, LSN and others bash Pope Francis as a heretic. And here I am stuck in the middle.
Yep, with clowns on the left side, and jokers on the right.
Many, many people will take this to include sexual relations. The pope needs to do his papal duty to teach and clarify exactly what he means by this. The pope is supposed to be the ultimate teacher and leader and not spread confusion and ambiguity. If he does not clarify exactly what he means and in what circumstances, many people will assume this will include sexual unions which will lead even more souls to hell.
Feb '16 "Can Catholics support same-sex civil unions?
Catholic Answers Forums “No absolutely not”
Oct '20 “The pope came out in support of same-sex civil unions.”
Catholic Answers Forums “Well, I mean, that’s fine.”
Can’t wait for the secular media to start making this something bigger than it is.
It works in places like France because they’ve had an established system separating civil union and religious marriage for a long time.
Unfortunately, the law that has developed in the USA and I suspect other places is not and has never been set up for that. The marriage laws also spilled over into a great many other related areas of law, such as tax code, that would make it difficult to incorporate a big change allowing for “civil unions” that affects a relatively tiny portion of the population.
If not for the US election causing Trump to take up literally 90 percent of the media space, this would no doubt be a lead story here.
Well, CAF isn’t exactly the place to go for doctrinal authority.
This is rather “nothing to see here-” news. He has floated this before before. See below:
What I suspect this announcement may do, is distract scrutiny from tomorrows announcement of the renewal of the secret deal with China. I will post something regarding this shortly.
Dr. Taylor Marshall is going to have a field day with this story.