thank you! Like I said I don’t really understand a lot of the technical side of religion.
I don’t think we are on the same page. The document states that “The pluralism and diversity of religions,…are willed by God in His wisdom,…”. It doesn’t say that God wills everyone to be Catholic.
The document, taken as a whole, provides the reasoning for this. But I’ll attempt to give the more explicit parts from the document here:
Dialogue, understanding and the widespread promotion of a culture of tolerance, acceptance of others and of living together peacefully would contribute significantly to reducing many economic, social, political and environmental problems that weigh so heavily on a large part of humanity;
· Dialogue among believers means coming together in the vast space of spiritual, human and shared social values and, from here, transmitting the highest moral virtues that religions aim for. It also means avoiding unproductive discussions;
There is even an example given of this ^ :
Good relations between East and West are indisputably necessary for both. They must not be neglected, so that each can be enriched by the other’s culture through fruitful exchange and dialogue. The West can discover in the East remedies for those spiritual and religious maladies that are caused by a prevailing materialism. And the East can find in the West many elements that can help free it from weakness, division, conflict and scientific, technical and cultural decline.
Okay, I got to that passage and the sentence in question:
Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept;
Different people might read it differently. That makes it interesting for CAF.
It’s probably compatible with CCC 843:
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”
I note that the quoted paragraph says freedom is good, and being forced to accept a religion (or a culture) is not good. I think most would agree.
“Willed” and “allowed” are not the same thing at all.
I’d agree he began to be loosed at that time.
Jesus himself referenced when judgment is near being like the days of Noah so if you want to take it literally or mythically as long as you understand what’s at stake.
Right, that’s what we are talking about here. God wills other religions in that he allows them. Just as God doesn’t will sin but allows sin to happen because we have free will. Doesn’t mean sin is good, we should even avoid deliberate venial sin at all costs.
Great post. And the Catholic Church is the font of science as well. Just sayin’
Indifferentism isn’t even logical.
No question in my mind Jesus was being deadly serious whenever he spoke about the end times. Life and death of immortal souls serious.
But does evangelization still matter (though it must come from the real place if I may presume) if I may ask? Also I understand you’re a Third Order Carmelite, might I ask if any of what you said here has come from Carmelite Spirtuality/Theology?
Just thinking out loud
From the Doc
"Freedom is a right of every person: each individual enjoys the freedom of belief, thought, expression and action. The pluralism and the diversity of religions, colour, sex, race and language are willed by God in His wisdom, through which He created human beings. This divine wisdom is the source from which the right to freedom of belief and the freedom to be different derives. Therefore, the fact that people are forced to adhere to a certain religion or culture must be rejected, as too the imposition of a cultural way of life that others do not accept;
God established free will. Everything then, is choice we make, made freely. If we are forced against our will to do something that we don’t want to do, that takes away our freedom of choice. And choice, freely made, is how we are judged by Jesus, for what we do in this life…
AND as an example
When Jesus said to the apostles, after they had been in an argument over who is the greatest among THEM, Jesus laid that argument’s instigator on SATAN. Jesus said, SATAN demanded to sift you (plural) like wheat . As in Satan will divide you. Which is what SATAN does. Who did SATAN make that command to? Jesus. And Jesus allowed it.
Does Jesus want division? NO. He wants perfect unity
Is there terrible consequences for division and those who do it, or keep it going? Absolutely!
Division / dissension διχοστασίαι
Satan is permitted to attack . WHY?
Jesus is allowing testing. NOT that He needs to know the outcome. He already knows everything before it happens. The education is for each of us to learn about ourselves. . WE don’t know what we will do until we are tested. Therefore, We need to be tested. It shows US where we really are in our relationship with God. Pop quizzes, mid terms, all through life, … then comes the final exam. Will we persevere to the end and pass, or will we fail? Jesus knows, WE don’t … till the end.
My hunch is that Pope Francis is pointing to the test. Will people choose unity in Our Lord’s One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church? Or will they peel off and join schismatics and all sorts of sects and divisions? Choices have consequences.
There is a difference between stating vociferously that something is a heresy, and the other side: forcing people to recant or face punishment designed to change them or eliminate them.
And Little Flower did not make a statement of indifferentism.
I must point out that this is most certainly NOT the Catholic teaching on what happens after death.
My post wasn’t addressed to Little Flower. You might note that I’ve “hearted” Little Flower’s posts.
Call my post a general observation, if you like.
No, he is presenting the fact that we are different and we HAVE the freedom to be different. That God hears all His creation.
After your death… be prepared to have the most gargantuan surprise of your life!!! enough to have a spiritual heart attack!!! and no medics to assist…