Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702
The Pope’s position on gay people appears to contrast with that of his predecessors
*Pope Francis has said gay people should not be judged or marginalised.

Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he said: “If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?”

The Pope’s remarks are being seen as much more conciliatory than his predecessor’s position on the issue.

Turning to the issue of women priests, he said the Church had spoken and had said “no”, but the role of women should not be restricted.

“We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more,” he said in a wide-ranging 80-minute long interview with Vatican journalists.

Five months after he took over from Pope Benedict, he said gay people should be fully accepted in society, even though the Catholic teaching was that homosexual acts were sinful.

“The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well,” Pope Francis said.

“It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society.”

But he condemned what he described as lobbying by gay people.

“The problem is not having this orientation,” he said. “We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.”*

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/pope-judge-gay-priests-19800245

“While stressing Catholic social teaching that calls for homosexuals to be treated with dignity and not marginalized, Francis said it was something else entirely to conspire to use private information for blackmail or to exert pressure.”

Before your side breaks out the champagne and before my side gets our knickers too much in a bunch, why don’t we wait until an actual transcript comes out.

The secular media has been wrong about the Church, in general, and this Pope, specifically, too many times to accept this report at face value.

As Archbishop Chaput said a couple of years ago,

We make a very serious mistake if we rely on media like the New York Times, Newsweek, CNN, or MSNBC for reliable news about religion. These news media simply don’t provide trustworthy information about religious faith—and sometimes they can’t provide it, either because of limited resources or because of their own editorial prejudices. These are secular operations focused on making a profit. They have very little sympathy for the Catholic faith, and quite a lot of aggressive skepticism toward any religious community that claims to preach and teach God’s truth.

I think his admonition would include ABC, as well.

Classic BBC, and media in general. Pitting Francis against Benedict, They both share the same teaching, and it’s certainly not as if Benedict “hated” same-sex attracted people.

Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he said: “If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?”

They’re reading too much into this. There may be a change in wording/tone, but the message the Pope is sending is the same as always.

Turning to the issue of women priests, he said the Church had spoken and had said “no”, but the role of women should not be restricted.

Now, I’ll go all in and bet the media will still not stop going on about women’s ordination after this. Of course not, why would they?

“We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more,” he said in a wide-ranging 80-minute long interview with Vatican journalists.

Although I am not an advocate for altar girls, I agree with the Pope in so far as that women should have a role in the Church that fits both their wishes and the Church’s teaching.

But he condemned what he described as lobbying by gay people.

“What he described as”? What else would you call it? I may be going over the top here, but it sounds to me as though the BBC is suggesting there was no “gay lobbying” in the world.

“The problem is not having this orientation,” he said. “We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.”

Masonic lobbies? :eek: :popcorn:

I’ll wait for the Vatican statement just incase this turns out to be the sensationalism driven media twisting a theological talk to create a front page news.

I have nothing against the BBC. They’ve got excellent reporting. But they fall victims of the same drive to sensationalism like any other leading news service.

What does that mean, “judging?” I’ve been thinking a lot lately about tons of different topics and one of the questions I keep asking myself about lots of different topics is, “What does that even mean?” Imprecise language is the death of reasonable conversation and all argument. I’m not putting down what the Pope said, but I just wish we would all define exactly what we mean, either explicitly or implicitly, before we say it.

I’ll keep looking for that too. They are certainly putting a spin on things that wasn’t intended.

I have nothing against the BBC. They’ve got excellent reporting. But they fall victims of the same drive to sensationalism like any other leading news service.

Neither do I in general, but there are areas which they are either bad at, wilfully blind to or just malicious. Religion is one of them.

This seems to be a better quote,although not official either.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702

*Five months after he took over from Pope Benedict, he said gay people should be fully accepted in society, even though the Catholic teaching was that homosexual acts were sinful.

“The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well,” Pope Francis said.

“It says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society.”

But he condemned what he described as lobbying by gay people.

“The problem is not having this orientation,” he said. “We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.”*

** According to the Wall Street Journal, the Pope’s comments about homosexuality came in the context of a question about gay priests.**
huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-gays_n_3669635.html

If the catholic church is accepting Gay priest but not heterosexual priest they are becoming a joke. I know that’s not the case in public but in private its appearing that way.

As far as just gay acts the bible to me just saying its a abomination to have such fleshy acts and then still the mind and pray.Its just not the way to the kingdom of God but we all have sins and most grow out of the abundance of sex.

Here is another story on this by The Washington Post, which is longer and a little more detailed.

news.yahoo.com/pope-says-wont-judge-gay-priests-111041448.html

Interesting how the headlines differ. This one says “Pope says he won’t judge gay priests,” whereas the other one says, “Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?” What I think is fair, though, is that both articles immediately placed his quote, “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” which clarifies the Pope’s meaning. If they wanted to really twist things around, they would have placed that quote in the middle of the article, which most people tend not to read.

How is the Church somehow not accepting heterosexual priests?!

His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.

news.yahoo.com/pope-says-wont-judge-gay-priests-111041448.html

I believe Pope Benedict had good reason to sign that, and somehow I’m unsure about what Pope Francis’ idea is. Benedict didn’t sign it because he wanted revenge on someone, but because the abuse scandals were linked to priests’ homosexual inclinations. That makes more sense than “not forgiving” a priest for something he has done, which is an entirely different question.

“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pope added

First of all, he was referring to gay priests. Priests are celibate. He seems to be claiming that so-called gay priests (“they say they exist”) amount to more than just their sexual orientation. They are first and foremost men of God. A different approach to the issue than Benedict’s, but no less Catholic.

Ugh. The media. :dts:

Catholic priest do not have sex or get married but abstain from sex all together whish I see as non sexual.

Which is completely different from what you were saying before. Even celibate priests can be heterosexual.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1303260.htm

More Catholic reporting here.

Need a full transcript.

.

[quote="CutlerB]I believe Pope Benedict had good reason to sign that,…
[/quote]

He may have had a good reason to do it, but was it prudent for him to do so? I’ll trust his judgment in the matter, but I for one have had a difficult time understanding how this would be helpful given the current environment regarding those pushing the gay agenda via the “gay lobby” and those with same-sex attraction who are striving to find their place in the Church.

Addressing the issue of the gay lobby, Pope Francis said it was important to “distinguish between a person who is gay and someone who makes a gay lobby,” he said. “A gay lobby isn’t good.”

“A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will – well, who am I to judge him?” the pope said. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says one must not marginalize these persons, they must be integrated into society. The problem isn’t this (homosexual) orientation – we must be like brothers and sisters. The problem is something else, the problem is lobbying either for this orientation or a political lobby or a Masonic lobby.”

It will be interesting to see what Pope Francis does regarding ordination of priests with same-sex attraction.

Though the media headlines reveal how subconsciously desperate secularists are for the Pope to approve homosexual behavior, this BBC story actually contains much more than a lot of other stories that all but suggest the Pope says homosexual behavior is a-ok.

You’re certainly not using the word “heterosexual” the way most people use it.

Thanks for the link. What he said sounds fine to me, but many people are going to take it the wrong way. Sigh.

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