Pope Had `Prophecy' of Market Collapse in 1985, Tremonti Says

Pope Had `Prophecy’ of Market Collapse in 1985, Tremonti Says
By Flavia Krause-Jackson and Lorenzo Totaro

                                              Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- [Pope Benedict XVI]("http://www.vatican.va/") was the first to predict the crisis in the global financial system, a ``prophecy'' dating to a paper he wrote when he was a cardinal, Italian Finance Minister [Giulio Tremonti]("http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Giulio+Tremonti&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1") said.     
    ``The prediction that an undisciplined economy would collapse by its own rules can be found'' in an article written by Cardinal [Joseph Ratzinger]("http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Joseph+Ratzinger&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1"), who became pope in April 2005, Tremonti said yesterday at Milan's Cattolica University. 


Many secular economists predicted what happened this year many years ago. For example “Day of Reckoning” by Benjamin Friedman (1988).

In 1963, Bl. John XXIII wrote an encyclical called Mater et Magistra. Badly received by conservatives at the time (famous grammatically poor National Review quip “Mater si, Magistra no!”), its true meaning, like most authentic Catholic social teaching, challenges both conservatives and liberals:

Among the things it calls for:

  1. Applying the standards of industrialization and corporatization (or, ideally, coops) to agriculture, to make food cheaper for the poor.
  2. Helping the poor by making products cheaper (e.g., Wal-Mart)
  3. Increased education and technological assistance for farmers
  4. Everyone has a right to property; no one has the right to a mansion.
  5. Workers have the right to own their own labor, whether by self-employment, coop, or by employee ownership of corporate stocks (a common benefit now that was pushed by the “liberal” Popes of the early 20th century)
  6. A ban on artificial contraception. John XXIII reminds us that animals are, ultimately, property/machines, infinitely below the dignity of human beings. We can use “population control” methods on animals, but not on humans.

He calls artificial contraception the greatest economic evil of our age. He predicts that artificial contraception will lead to an age of superficial prosperty that will self-implode when the population cannot support it. God will not allow an economy based upon sin to thrive for long.

This is exactly what is happening. The population bust is coming home to roost.

Ok and your point is ?

I think she had a point. :slight_smile: I like our Pope too, but the fact is that many others could have and did an event similar to what we’re witnessing - maybe not quite as severe.

Heck, there was also Black Monday ('87).

I would be interested in the specifics of the Pope’s ‘prophecy’. (I would bet a lot that the Pontiff did not regard this as a divinely inspired predication but rather as the informed suspicion of a wise and spiritual man.)

Thanks. Except I’m a guy. :slight_smile:

Beg your pardon, ma’am! :tiphat:

(Just kiddin - sorry.)

If you put $10,000 into an index fund ten or eleven years ago, you would have just about the same amount right now. But it will go lower.

Let’s redefine “long term investing” as 25 years or more.

Many people today still have not figured out that our economy is in dire straights because of the immorality of the people controlling it. However, it seems the Pope predicted this in 1985. Here is the final paragraph of his Market Economy and Ethics By Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger.

These realms have come to appear mutually exclusive in the modern context of the separation of the subjective and objective realms. But the whole point is precisely that they should meet, preserving their own integrity and yet inseparable. It is becoming an increasingly obvious fact of economic history that the development of economic systems which concentrate on the common good depends on a determinate ethical system, which in turn can be born and sustained only by strong religious convictions. Conversely, it has also become obvious that the decline of such discipline can actually cause the laws of the market to collapse. An economic policy that is ordered not only to the good of the group — indeed, not only to the common good of a determinate state — but to the common good of the family of man demands a maximum of ethical discipline and thus a maximum of religious strength. The political formation of a will that employs the inherent economic laws towards this goal appears, in spite of all humanitarian protestations, almost impossible today. It can only be realized if new ethical powers are completely set free. A morality that believes itself able to dispense with the technical knowledge of economic laws is not morality but moralism. As such it is the antithesis of morality. A scientific approach that believes itself capable of managing without an ethos misunderstands the reality of man. Therefore it is not scientific. Today we need a maximum of specialized economic understanding, but also a maximum of ethos so that specialized economic understanding may enter the service of the right goals. Only in this way will its knowledge be both politically practicable and socially tolerable.

Link to full article

Pope Had `Prophecy’ of Market Collapse in 1985, Tremonti Says
By Flavia Krause-Jackson and Lorenzo Totaro

Article on Bloomberg.com

And yet we have the same executives and politicians that caused the problems in the first place still in control of our government, corporations, and economy. In the last election the American people still have not learned to look for morality in our leaders. Until we wake up to this fact, we are doomed to more of the same.

Instead we American people as a whole have bought into the rhetoric and have blamed one of the few moral leaders we have for the mess, when in fact the real culprits are many immoral leaders in congress, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other corporate executive who were and are in collusion with them.

Cardinal Ratzinger said it brilliantly. BRILLIANTLY!!

I honestly believe that the same spirit is in the immoral leaders you reference that was in those who despised Jesus.

Economies are cyclical. He might as well have predicted that the earth will one day complete a full revolution around the Sun.

You apparently did not take the time to read the article. It was not a simple prediction, it was a detailed description of world economies and the result of unethical behavior. It was truly insightful and time has proven it correct. If you took the time to read it you would not have made the comment you did.

Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) – Pope Benedict XVI was the first to predict the crisis in the global financial system, a prophecy'' dating to a paper he wrote when he was a cardinal, Italian Finance Minister Giulio Tremonti said.The prediction that an undisciplined economy would collapse by its own rules can be found’’ in an article written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who became pope in April 2005, Tremonti said yesterday at Milan’s Cattolica University.

German-born Ratzinger in 1985 presented a paper entitled Market Economy and Ethics'' at a Rome event dedicated to the Church and the economy. The future pope said a decline in ethicscan actually cause the laws of the market to collapse.’’

Pope Benedict in an Oct. 7 speech reflected on crashing markets and concluded that money vanishes, it is nothing'' and warned thatthe only solid reality is the word of God.’’ The Vatican’s official newspaper, l’Osservatore Romano, on the same day criticized the free-market model for having ``grown too much and badly in the past two decades.’’


I think that this is a bit like people do with Nostrodamus, people are twisting the facts to fit their perceived view of things. We know that Cardinal Ratzinger was not predicting the subprime mortgage crisis, nor was he saying when these things were going to happen. In addition, the economy has not collapsed. It has just stubbed its toe. Now, he does raise a good point, that if we act solely based on greed, instead of on the laws of God, we do risk an economic collapse.

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