Pope John Paul II's crucifix


#1

I hope I have posted in the right place.

I am looking for a full-scale reproduction of Pope John Paul II’s crucifix, in pewter or comparable metal (below). It probably is about 2 feet high.

I want a true full-sized reproduction, licensed by the Vatican, and not something “in the style of.”

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.


#2

I don't think you'll find those for sale at or licensed by the Vatican. But that doesn't mean you can't find one or have one made.

Anything could be made. I doubt those are in high demand though. And supply and demand is business.

Did you search E-bay? All the Rosarys sold at the Vatican while JP-II was Pope had a crucifix on them in that style.


#3

shidoni.com/html/Detail.asp?WorkInvNum=54251&artistname=Gib%20Singleton&whatpage=artistfull

Depending on what you do for a living, it is affordable. It is made by the same artist that made Pope John Paul's cross.

By the way, I don't work for them, so I hope this isn't considered advertising. I found several links to other forum posts, and just did a search on the artist's name. Some of these other threads are interesting:

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=47131
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=49174


#4

I must be in the minority that thinks that cross is hidious. It makes me think I need to beware of Zombie Jesus :slight_smile:


#5

[quote="Bataar, post:4, topic:232962"]
I must be in the minority that thinks that cross is hidious. It makes me think I need to beware of Zombie Jesus :)

[/quote]

I think either you "get" that crucifix or you don't. Personally I don't like it either. But you have to admit that it gets the concept of "agony" across rather well.


#6

My grandmother bought the rosary with this cross. I must have gotten it when I was 15, still have it..

I like it...

My mother is looking for a large version too. I'll keep your post in mind should we find one!


#7

This one is 10"

olacathedralgifts.com/popejohnpauliicross10metalpapalcrucifix.aspx


#8

[quote="CatholicBoy1957, post:3, topic:232962"]
shidoni.com/html/Detail.asp?WorkInvNum=54251&artistname=Gib%20Singleton&whatpage=artistfull

[/quote]

That link didn't work for me.


#9

[quote="faithfully, post:7, topic:232962"]
This one is 10"

olacathedralgifts.com/popejohnpauliicross10metalpapalcrucifix.aspx

[/quote]

Good find!


#10

So far, I'm still looking without finding the original replica.

The Gib Singleton cross at the shindoni.com site -- shidoni.com/html/Detail.asp?WorkInvNum=54251&artistname=Gib%20Singleton&whatpage=artist -- is very close, but he is not the designer, and that cross is an undersized "in the style of" knock-off.

The designer of the authentic original crucifix I am looking for was an Italian, Lello Scorzelli, and he is no longer alive.

More information about Scorzelli and the crucifix can be found here (scroll all the way down): idlespeculations-terryprest.blogspot.com/2009/11/lello-scorzelli-1921-1997.html

I think that if the Vatican has not licensed the reproduction of this crucifix, then it is not available for sale to the public.

Still searching.


#11

[quote="Zio_Alfonso, post:10, topic:232962"]

The Gib Singleton cross at the shindoni.com site -- shidoni.com/html/Detail.asp?WorkInvNum=54251&artistname=Gib%20Singleton&whatpage=artist -- is very close, but he is not the designer, and that cross is an undersized "in the style of" knock-off.

[/quote]

He's not the designer of the first one Pope John Paul carried, but didn't he design the second one that JP carried?


#12

[quote="CatholicBoy1957, post:11, topic:232962"]
He's not the designer of the first one Pope John Paul carried, but didn't he design the second one that JP carried?

[/quote]

Hmmm, maybe you've got something there. I didn't know there was a "first" and a "second" crucifix. Why would there be a need to have a second one, if it looked just like the first? Anyway, at your prompting, I did find this link: freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1378567/posts

I'm going to go back to the Shindoni site you recommended and explore further, thanks.


#13

[quote="Zio_Alfonso, post:12, topic:232962"]
Hmmm, maybe you've got something there. I didn't know there was a "first" and a "second" crucifix. Why would there be a need to have a second one, if it looked just like the first? Anyway, at your prompting, I did find this link: freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1378567/posts

I'm going to go back to the Shindoni site you recommended and explore further, thanks.

[/quote]

I'm trying to piece the story together by reading bits and pieces spread all over the internet. Some people claim the Pope had a second one made of aluminum, which was much lighter, because of his declining strength. Because I'm losing my strength, I have no problem believing it made a difference to the Pope. The problem with some of these stories is that they do not cite references for their comments.

I don't know if Scorzelli could have done the second one. I think he had gone to his Heavenly Reward by that time.


#14

[quote="CatholicBoy1957, post:13, topic:232962"]
I'm trying to piece the story together by reading bits and pieces spread all over the internet. Some people claim the Pope had a second one made of aluminum, which was much lighter, because of his declining strength. Because I'm losing my strength, I have no problem believing it made a difference to the Pope. The problem with some of these stories is that they do not cite references for their comments.

[/quote]

You're right again. I also have researched that the Pope needed a "lighter" second crucifix as he aged, and likely that was the Singleton design (although I don't know why they just couldn't have cast the Scorzellli model out of aluminum).

Now, here's the confusing part, so far. Every picture of John Paul II holding a crucifix appears to show the Scorzelli design.

I haven't found a picture of John Paul II yet with a different crucifix design. Even when you go to the Shidoni website, the Singleton crucifix they offer does not match the crucifix (by Scorzelli) being carried by the Pope, see here:
http://www.shidoni.com/html/..%5Cpublish%5Cworksimages%5CGSIN10009web_LG.jpg

Thus, even on the Shidoni site when offering Singleton's work, they appear to show the Scorzelli crucifix. Notice that the Singleton version (at least the one offered for sale by Shidoni), is smaller (only 12" high), it has an INRE placard at the top of the cross, the left foot rather than the right is on top, and other features about the angles of the head, limbs and cross are altered a bit). Shidoni even calls it an "impressionistic depiction."

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this, and I have e-mailed Shidoni asking if they can send me a picture of the Pope holding the Singleton crucifix, and if they otherwise can explain the discrepancies in the Singleton crucifix they offer for sale and the one they picture with the Pope.

You've been great, so if you can provide further illumination, it would be appreciated. The $4,000 price is steep, but I would pay it if I was sure I was getting an authentic full-scale reproduction. So far, the piece they offer on the Shidoni site does not look like the right one.


#15

[quote="Zio_Alfonso, post:14, topic:232962"]
I don't know why they just couldn't have cast the Scorzellli model out of aluminum).

[/quote]

Wouldn't that make it an unauthorized copy, if Scorzelli was no longer alive to authorize it? Even if it were not copyrighted, it may have simply been a matter of professional courtesy or ethics, and I'll bet the $4000 copies that Shidoni sells are copyrighted, and that wouldn't be nice to copyright a copy.

It looks as though the Vatican has contracted Singleton quite a bit in the past already anyway.

Isn't it great though, that we still have both of John Paul's croziers? We can't say that about both of Paul McCartney's Hofner basses.


#16

Without getting into legal issues, I’d be astonished if Scorzelli made a crucifix for the Pope and the license to reproduce it was not held by the Vatican.

What I still have never seen is a photo of the Pope holding or next to the Singleton replacement, and I’m not even sure that the $4,000 crucifix shown for sale on Shinoda is actually a crucifix that was ever used by John Paul II.

I’ll post again when/if Shinoda gets back to my e-mail with an explanation.


#17

TO ALL YOU FAITH-FULL FOLLOWERS OF THE STAFF: "THE ORIGINAL'' OF JOHN PAUL'S CRUCIFIX HAS JUST BEEN MADE PUBLIC............................VISIT "ASK-ART" ref:-GIB SINGLETON. THE DON MULLINS GALLERY @ DONMGALLERY.COM. "SEEK AND YOU SHALL FIND."


#18

Hi All,

I have checked out Yellowbird's reference, and I'm sorry to say that it is still inconclusive.

In fact, I have been able to find no image anywhere of either Pope, John Paul II or Benedict XVI, actually holding any "Gib Singleton" crucifix.

One would think that any seller offering a Singleton crucifix for sale -- especially at a list price of $4,000 -- along with a claim that it was actually used by both Benedict and John Paul, would be able to provide an image of that crucifix with either pope.

Not so, however. The image below is NOT the Singleton crucifix.

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200712/r213550_824264.jpg

Here is a Singleton crucifix:

http://galeriezuger.homestead.com/Singleton/Large_Images/Hanging_Cross_Small.jpg


#19

The Bowed Crucifix first appeared around1523-1525 in a painting created by artist Matthias Grunewald of Germany. Gib Singleton’s interpretation of this bowed crucifix was first cast in 1968, at his studio, East Bank Gallery, in Granite City, Illinois. This piece was created using a coffee can casting technique, which destroyed the mold in the process.

Singleton produced another interpretation of the bowed cross in 1977-1978 to the specifications of Pope John Paul II. This version became the Singleton Papal Crucifix produced in silver and used on Pope John Paul II’s staff. That is why they look different. The artist proof for the second interpretation is in a private collection. Singleton has produced many more interpretations of the cross over the years, but the original from East Bank is the very first. Singleton’s “Shroud of Turin” sculpture commissioned by Pope John Paul is also factual and resides with the Shroud. For further information regarding Singleton, you might want to check a Granite City “Hall of Fame” article regarding the artist and a Southern Illinois University article by Steve Janowski, Director of Alumni Association SIUE. Pope John Paul II’s personal selection of this iconic image is much too important to the world’s faithful to be misinformed about its origin.

If you inform me on how to post an image, I’d be happy to post an image of the original East Bank cross.


#20

Hi Yellowbird,

I appreciate your information, but I don't think I can agree with you about the originator of "John Paul II's crucifix" (at least not yet).

According to this site: idlespeculations-terryprest.blogspot.com/2009/11/lello-scorzelli-1921-1997.html, Lello Scorzelli made the iconic "bent" crucifix for Pope Paul VI, and Pope John Paul II continued its use in his honor.

I'm not saying that Gib Singleton's association with Vatican art is not significant, but the problem is a simple one. Not a single image I can find anywhere shows either John Paul II or Benedict XVI with a crucifix of Singleton's design -- they all look like Scorzelli's.

Another example of Scorzelli's crucifix, see here:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/pope1.jpg

It would be great if you can provide an image of either Pope holding a crucifix of Singleton's design (close to Scorzelli's, but key differences and not as good IMO -- like comparing Brunelleschi's Sacrifice of Isaac with Ghiberti's, but still . . . .) I have searched a lot and I have not been able to find any image anywhere with any Pope holding a Singleton-designed crucifix (at least, not the Singleton designs you can find for sale).

To post an image, "copy" the location of the image by "right-clicking" on the image and selecting "copy image location," and then go to the icon above the message box that looks like a little postcard of a mountain. Click on that icon and "insert" the URL.

Thanks.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.