Pope Pius XII historical controversy


#1

~THE WORLD OVER~on EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) tonight, Friday July 29, at 8:00pm ET
Join Raymond Arroyo for The World Over with** guest Rabbi David Dalin - Pius XII and World War II.**

WORLD OVER RE-AIR TIMES:
Saturday at 1am ET
Sunday at 5pm ET
Monday at 10am ET
Monday at 11 pm ET
(note all times are eastern standard)


#2

The defenses of this Pope always seem inconsistent to me.

  1. It’s asserted that the Pope was not “silent.”

  2. It’s then asserted that he was silent, but this was so he could more effectively save Jews.

  3. Then it’s asserted that he wasn’t silent, but spoke only in general terms, but that the Nazis always knew he was against them.

If Pius XII’s oblique statements were known for whatthey reallly were by the Nazis, then why bother making them obligue? What’s the difference if you use the word “Jew” or not if the Nazis and everyone else knows what you really mean anyways? Why not just come out with an explicit, unequivocal denunciation and excommunication of the Nazis?

I just don’t get it.


#3

It is claimed that someone in the Vatican helped Anton Pavelic, the Ustase head of Croatia, to escape after WWII.


#4

http://newsmax.com/images/spacer.gif[font=Arial, Helvetica][size=3] [font=Times New Roman][size=3]According to Max I. Dimont*, there were 1.4 Christians murdered for every Jew murdered in the Nazi death camps. That makes seven-million Christians and five-million Jews exterminated in concentration camps by firing squads and in gas chambers. There were also approximately 3,000 Christian clergyman who were killed in the camps for their refusal to knuckle under to Hitler’s Big Lie. Should we ignore this? Don’t you see how dangerous it is if we view Nazism only as a Jewish problem? The Nazi didn’t start with the Jews. They attacked the Christian Church and tried to eliminate Christians who wouldn’t play ball with Hitler’s Neue Ordnung before focusing on the Jews and other non-Aryans. In fact, at the end of the war the Russians found enough Zyklon-B lethal-gas crystals to kill another twenty-million non-Aryans-and this was after most of Europe’s Jews had been murdered. [/size]

The truth is also that Pope Pius XII was not Hitler’s Pope but was one of the great men of all time in that he saved hundreds of thousands of Jewish people. But the very opposite was recently shown on “60 Minutes,” whose lies tens of millions of viewers take as gospel. It’s time that these lies were knocked to the floor like false idols and trodden upon as they deserve. I know it’s like David taking on the giant media Goliath, but truth is truth. This is all part of the radical agenda, an attempt to debase the Catholic Church and Christianity so that religion can be subverted by rabid leftist perverts. This is not just a threat against Catholics, but against Protestants, Jews and others as well. Remember, the early Bolsheviks said “religion is the opiate of the masses.” They replaced the church with the state, and God was replaced by communist “heros.” It takes a village!

Now who are we going to believe about Pius XII, a blathering ear-ringed script reader on “60 Minutes,” with no proof for his slanders? Or are we going to believe Golda Meir, Israel’s former prime minister and a Jew who lived at the time of the Nazi horrors? Here’s what she had to say about Eugenio Pacelli-called “Hitler’s Pope” by the media slanderers–on the occasion of his funeral: “When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror the voice of the Pope was raised for the victims.”

Here is another voice we didn’t hear on “60 Minutes,” that of Israel’s second prime minister, Moishe Sharat. He met with Pius XII in the closing stages of WWII, and here is what he had to say: “I told Pope Pius XII that my first duty was to thank him and, through him, the Catholic Church on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews. We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church.” You decide: Who are you going to believe, the slobbering church-hater on TV or the former prime minister of Israel?

On the death of Pius XII in 1958 there was a serious move in Israel to dedicate a forest in his honor, a fact that few are aware of. How could this be possible if he were a betrayer of the Jews in WWII? How and when did the story start that he collaborated with Hitler?

*Max I. Dimont, Jews, God and History, 1962, Simon & Schuster, New York.
**Michael Savage *April 24, 2000 News Max
newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/4/24/53743
[/font][/size][/font]


#5

How and when did the story start that he collaborated with Hitler?

Actually, there were no such stories–until a doctrinaire-socialist German author decided to play out his anti-religion agenda by inciting hatred between Jews and Catholics. The radical-left author was Rolf Hochhut, who, interestingly enough, was a member of the Hitler Youth as a child (remember, Hitler and his Nazis were socialists). Hochhut’s play, The Deputy, appeared in 1963, five years after the Pope’s death, during the 60s cultural revolution in the West and was acclaimed by the left as if it were a true-life documentary of the period. He depicted the Pope as a heartless, cold cynic who was deaf to any reports about the Nazi death camps. And few have questioned this slanderous portrayal since.

These same sentiments were voiced in a more recent book Hitler’s Pope by John Cornwell,. And now we find them mouthed again as gospel truth on “60 Minutes.” They will never tell you that Pius XII has numerous scholarly defenders. And you are also not told that one of the interesting features of the attacks on Pius XII is that they have emanated from non-Jewish sources.

If we let this slander against Pius XII and the Catholics go by, we will give the anti-God perverts one of the biggest victories they’ve had. This is just one more move among many to destroy all religion except the religion of the state. It’s an ongoing battle, one, unfortunately, that was not won with the victory over the German Nazis or the fall of the Soviet empire. The perverts never learn. Leftism, totalitarianism, communism, fascism, are perversions, a pathological hatred of religion and the family. It’s irrational and blind. If thwarted at one time and place, it merely attempts to impose its will under a new guise elsewhere. If we ever imagine we’ve conquered it once and for all, it will likely conquer us instead.

Never before in the history of our nation have we had a media as compliant with government propaganda as we have now. In the past journalists were the ornery outsiders looking in. Today the lapdog liberal “reporters,” TV script readers and “commentators” may as well work for the Reich! Leni Reifenstahl and Josef Goebbels never held the kind of power over the mass-mind of Germany held today by the alphabet moguls (i.e., ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, Fox). Our only hope for liberation from the tyranny of government propaganda is a new administration, one that will “bust the trusts” (break the media monopolies) and let the diversity of opinion flow again.

*Max I. Dimont, Jews, God and History, 1962, Simon & Schuster, New York.
**Michael Savage *April 24, 2000 News Max
newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/4/24/53743


#6

If you examine the critics of PiusXII back far enough you will find they are connected to Communism.

He certainly was an opponent of this disease,
As they made attempts on his life even as a Bishop.
The communist haven’t gone away with the fall of the Soviet Union
The wolves have put on sheep’s clothing but their propaganda never changes


#7

RADIO MOSCOW LINKED TO RUMORS AGAINST PIUS XII

VATICAN CITY, JUNE 14, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Newly published research reveals that the “black legend” against Pope Pius XII was launched by Radio Moscow at the end of World War II.

Pius XII, who on his death received tribute from numerous heads of democratic states and from key Jewish representatives, has been described by some publications as an ally of totalitarian regimes. In particular, he has been accused of being “silent” in the face of Nazism.

Now, an article in the latest issue of the Italian review La Civiltà Cattolica, signed by Father Giovanni Sale, analyzes the Communist radio’s role in defaming Pius XII, specifically its reaction to the Pope’s address of June 2, 1945, the feast of St. Eugene.

On June 7, 1945, Radio Moscow broadcasted a program which “assumed … a paradigmatic value, as it summarized very well the point of view of the radical left about the Holy See’s activity during the time of the war,” affirms the historical research.

“Those who heard the Pope’s address on the occasion of the feast of St. Eugene, have been extremely surprised to learn that the Vatican, during the past years of Hitler’s dominance in Europe, acted with courage and audacity against the criminal Nazis. What the Vatican really did states the contrary,” claimed Radio Moscow.

“Spread distrust”

“In fact, if the Vatican acted in this way, it did so to maintain the vigilant policy of protection of Hitler and Mussolini,” added the Communist radio.

“No atrocity carried out by the Hitlerites stirred the contempt and indignation of the Vatican,” Radio Moscow claimed. “The latter was silent when the German death machines were active, when the chimneys of the crematorium ovens spewed smoke, when grenades and projectiles were thrown against the peaceful population of London, when the Hitlerite doctrine of elimination and extermination of nations and peoples was being transformed into a harsh reality.”

Radio Moscow lamented that Pius XII was filling his address with allusions against the Soviet Union and international Communism to “provoke differences and spread distrust among the Allies.”

The author of the La Civiltà Cattolica article states that “the international Communist press, and not only the latter, was totally aligned to Moscow’s directives on this matter.” The article adds: “So began the ‘Black Legend’ – which in the main has come down to our days – of a Pius XII friend and ally of the Nazis; the Pope who supported, for reasons of political interest, the Fascist totalitarian regimes and declared enemies of popular democracy.”

Source : ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=57684


#8

[quote=Deus Vult]http://newsmax.com/images/spacer.gif[font=Arial, Helvetica][size=3] [font=Times New Roman][size=3]According to Max I. Dimont*, there were 1.4 Christians murdered for every Jew murdered in the Nazi death camps. That makes seven-million Christians and five-million Jews exterminated in concentration camps by firing squads and in gas chambers. There were also approximately 3,000 Christian clergyman who were killed in the camps for their refusal to knuckle under to Hitler’s Big Lie. Should we ignore this? Don’t you see how dangerous it is if we view Nazism only as a Jewish problem? The Nazi didn’t start with the Jews. They attacked the Christian Church and tried to eliminate Christians who wouldn’t play ball with Hitler’s Neue Ordnung before focusing on the Jews and other non-Aryans. In fact, at the end of the war the Russians found enough Zyklon-B lethal-gas crystals to kill another twenty-million non-Aryans-and this was after most of Europe’s Jews had been murdered. [/size][/size]

The truth is also that Pope Pius XII was not Hitler’s Pope but was one of the great men of all time in that he saved hundreds of thousands of Jewish people. But the very opposite was recently shown on “60 Minutes,” whose lies tens of millions of viewers take as gospel. It’s time that these lies were knocked to the floor like false idols and trodden upon as they deserve. I know it’s like David taking on the giant media Goliath, but truth is truth. This is all part of the radical agenda, an attempt to debase the Catholic Church and Christianity so that religion can be subverted by rabid leftist perverts. This is not just a threat against Catholics, but against Protestants, Jews and others as well. Remember, the early Bolsheviks said “religion is the opiate of the masses.” They replaced the church with the state, and God was replaced by communist “heros.” It takes a village!

Now who are we going to believe about Pius XII, a blathering ear-ringed script reader on “60 Minutes,” with no proof for his slanders? Or are we going to believe Golda Meir, Israel’s former prime minister and a Jew who lived at the time of the Nazi horrors? Here’s what she had to say about Eugenio Pacelli-called “Hitler’s Pope” by the media slanderers–on the occasion of his funeral: “When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror the voice of the Pope was raised for the victims.”

Here is another voice we didn’t hear on “60 Minutes,” that of Israel’s second prime minister, Moishe Sharat. He met with Pius XII in the closing stages of WWII, and here is what he had to say: “I told Pope Pius XII that my first duty was to thank him and, through him, the Catholic Church on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews. We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church.” You decide: Who are you going to believe, the slobbering church-hater on TV or the former prime minister of Israel?

On the death of Pius XII in 1958 there was a serious move in Israel to dedicate a forest in his honor, a fact that few are aware of. How could this be possible if he were a betrayer of the Jews in WWII? How and when did the story start that he collaborated with Hitler?

*Max I. Dimont, Jews, God and History, 1962, Simon & Schuster, New York.
**Michael Savage *April 24, 2000 News Max
newsmax.com/articles/?a=2000/4/24/53743
[/font][/font]
[/quote]

Thank you. I can’t beleive some people actually belive the “Hitler’s Pope” myth.


#9

I had occasion last Sunday to speak with some elderly Ukrainian Catholics who survived WWII working as slaves to the Nazis. One lady described how the Germans came in and forcibly removed them to Germany to work in munition factories, on farms and more. They related some horrendous experiences which seem to be largely ignored and forgotten. It makes one wonder how is it the stories of what Christians suffered still remain largely untold.


#10

Venerable Pope Pius XII, in my opinion, is one of the BEST Popes that the Church has ever had. And we’ve had some great ones!

If he were already a Saint(may it happen soon!) then he would be my Patron Saint.


#11

[quote=Sacramentalist]Why not just come out with an explicit, unequivocal denunciation and excommunication of the Nazis?
I just don’t get it.
[/quote]

First, Pius XII did speak out against the Nazi’s, and was universally praised for it both during and after WW-II, and even up to and after his death in 1958. The NY Times in an editorial during the war called him “a voice in the wilderness.” He was praises by many Jewish leaders during the war and after.

Second, don’t assume that the more vociferously one speaks out, the more effective it is. With the Nazi’s, the reverse was true. The louder the condemnation, the more the reprisals, and the more people died. At one point, German bishops requested that the pope be more careful in his condemnations, solely to prevent more retaliatory deaths.


#12

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.