Pope’s upcoming Apostolic Exhortation likely to call for increased liturgical solemni


#1

**Pope’s upcoming Apostolic Exhortation likely to call for increased liturgical solemnity, reintegration of Latin

**Vatican City, Mar. 20, 2006 (CNA) - [size=2]In June Pope Benedict XVI will receive the final proposal from the recent Synod of Bishops for the drafting of his Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the Eucharist. The commission of 12 cardinals and bishops from around the world, led by the secretary of the Synod of Bishops, Archbishop Nicola Eterovic, will meet in June to present the Holy Father a final proposal based on the 50 propositions that were made at the conclusion of last October’s Synod.

According to a Vatican source, the commission will approve “a proposal and a plan for liturgical reform,” which will be made public in the Apostolic Exhortation that the Holy Father will tentatively issue in October.

The Vatican source said that the exhortation would include an invitation to greater use of Latin in the daily prayer of the Church and in the Mass—with the exception of the Liturgy of the Word—as well as in large public and international Masses.

The document would also encourage a greater use of Gregorian chant and classical polyphonic music; the gradual elimination of the use of songs whose music or lyrics are secular in origin, as well as the elimination of instruments that are “inadequate for liturgical use,” such as the electric guitar or drums, although it is not likely that specific instruments will be mentioned.

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#2

Outstanding!


#3

Great, now I’ll go to Mass and not even understand what is going on. Will the missal have the English translation of the Latin so those of us born after Vatican II can follow along? Frankly, if I can’t understand what is being said then I just do not listen. The abuses of the liturgy do not have to do with using the venacular. It there are abuses with secular songs, inappropriate instrumentals and inappropriate form, then address that.

I’ve been to wonderful teen Masses where drums and guitars have been used to beautifully enhance the celebration. IMO those Masses have seemed more like a celebration of Christ then the typical Mass I attend where no one bothers to sing at all. I can’t see how the congregation will be any more inclined to participate in a Gregorian Chant.

Let’s hope the word “invitation” doesn’t mean “requirement.”

It reminds me of a poem I learned when I was a child:

Latin is a dead language. It is plain to see. It killed all the Romans and now it is killing me.


#4

I am so relieved. I know it will probably take a long time, but it gives hope to a lot of us that feel reverance is lacking. It’s so hard to contemplate the mystery of the Eucharist when someone is back there playing a guitar and banging on drums at the same time.


#5

Good news indeed :thumbsup: ! A little more of "this is Holy Ground :bowdown: " and a little less of “let"s entertain the folks”.

Balance**…Balance…Balance!**


#6

[quote=Catherine S.]Good news indeed :thumbsup: ! A little more of "this is Holy Ground :bowdown: " and a little less of “let"s entertain the folks”.

Balance**…Balance…Balance!**
[/quote]

Amen!:amen:


#7

Just as a point of clarification…exactly what in this article is news? This was all discussed during the synod.

I know this will upset some…but I flat out doubt your gonna see a large scale return to oodles of Latin in the mass. Here and there, sure…but your getting your hopes up. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the sanctity or reverence of the liturgy.


#8

[quote=mom2boyz]Great, now I’ll go to Mass and not even understand what is going on. Will the missal have the English translation of the Latin so those of us born after Vatican II can follow along? Frankly, if I can’t understand what is being said then I just do not listen. The abuses of the liturgy do not have to do with using the venacular. It there are abuses with secular songs, inappropriate instrumentals and inappropriate form, then address that.
[/quote]

M2B,

I’ve taught my children basic Latin responses. It’s not all that hard to learn.

In fact, here is my then 4 year old son saying his “Ave Maria”

The documents of Vatican II ARE pretty clear on the subject, Latin should have the prime place in the Liturgy (Sacrosanctum Concillium #36)

The faithful should know how to say or chant their parts of the Mass IN LATIN ( S.C. #54)

So if your parish doesn’t offer instruction on what Latin you should know for the Mass, your parish has not yet implemented Vatican II


#9

I am glad I one of my prayerbooks has the Mass in Latin next to the Englisgh.

My parish is using the Agnus Dei in Chant for Lent. I doubt it will last. Our “music director” leaves much to be desired.

PF


#10

Papal Liturgical Ceremonies Under Review

Pope Benedict XVI is reviewing plans for papal liturgical celebrations, the Vatican’s top liturgist has disclosed.

Archbishop Piero Marini, the master of ceremonies for papal liturgies, spoke to the Italian internet site on March 20, during a visist to Milan for the publication of his book, Liturgy and Beauty. Archbishop Marini revealed that Pope Benedict XVI has been more demanding than his predecessor in watching plans for liturgical celebrations at the Vatican.

“With John Paul II I had a bit more freedom,” the Italian prelate told the Affaritaliani.it web site. “We had an implicit pact, because he was a man of prayer and not a liturgist.” With the new Pope, he continued, “I have to be a bit more attentive, because he is an expert on liturgy.”

The master of papal ceremonies said that he and the Pope are now carrying out a re-examination of papal liturgical celebrations. He reported that he regularly sends his notes to the Pontiff, who returns them with corrections, suggestions, or a note of approval.

Since 1987, Archbishop Marini has made plans for all major papal liturgical celebrations. During that time he has become a figure of some controversy at the Vatican, with some prelates objecting to the ceremonies he has devised. For instance, after canonization ceremonies that incorporated traditional African and Indian dance elements in October 2003, Cardinal Francis Arinze, the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship, spoke of “uncontrolled creativity” and a “too fertile imagination.” Archbishop Marini has also been criticized for downgrading the use of Gregorian chant and polyphony in favor of more contemporary and popular music.

Archbishop Marini became involved in liturgical affairs as a young priest, serving as personal secretary to the late Archbishop Annibale Bugnini, the principal architect of liturgical changes in the wake of Vatican II. His approach has been criticized by those who favor a more traditional approach-- including, in the past, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

The history of past disagreements between the current Pope and his chief liturgist have caused Vatican-watchers to predict that Archbishop Marini would soon be replaced as the papal master of ceremonies. But nearly a year after the Pope’s election he remains at his post.

In his interview with the Affaritaliani site, Archbishop Marini offered a blunt comment on prospects for reconciliation between the Holy See and the traditionalist Society for St. Pius X. The schism can be repaired, he said, only “if the Lefebvrists accept totally the Second Vatican Council and its teachings.” Otherwise, he said, “there is nothing to be done.”


#11

[quote=frommi]Just as a point of clarification…exactly what in this article is news? This was all discussed during the synod.

I know this will upset some…but I flat out doubt your gonna see a large scale return to oodles of Latin in the mass. Here and there, sure…but your getting your hopes up. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the sanctity or reverence of the liturgy.
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that is the point… the synod was the discussion

Now the Pope will begin to implement.

I know this will upset some… but I flat out doubt if we are going to maintain the lower level of reverence and lay-participation that has plagued the Church these last 40 years.

One strong bishop (of Rome) today…

more strong bishops tomorrow (like Carlson :thumbsup: )


#12

with the exception of the Liturgy of the Word—as well as in large public and international Masses.

this has never made sense to me. if the mass was large and international, wouldn’t latin be a good way to allow everyone to pray in the same language? i would say, except for small, local masses, latin is to be used. the strongest case for latin is that it is universal.


#13

[quote=mom2boyz]Great, now I’ll go to Mass and not even understand what is going on. Will the missal have the English translation of the Latin so those of us born after Vatican II can follow along? Frankly, if I can’t understand what is being said then I just do not listen. The abuses of the liturgy do not have to do with using the venacular. It there are abuses with secular songs, inappropriate instrumentals and inappropriate form, then address that.

I’ve been to wonderful teen Masses where drums and guitars have been used to beautifully enhance the celebration. IMO those Masses have seemed more like a celebration of Christ then the typical Mass I attend where no one bothers to sing at all. I can’t see how the congregation will be any more inclined to participate in a Gregorian Chant.

Let’s hope the word “invitation” doesn’t mean “requirement.”

It reminds me of a poem I learned when I was a child:

Latin is a dead language. It is plain to see. It killed all the Romans and now it is killing me.
[/quote]

You do realize that it’s a canard that no one knew what was going on in the Latin Mass? I was 10 when the Mass was changed, yet I knew what was going on for the simple reason that the Missals in use had the Latin on the left page and the English on the right. Any literate person knew what was happening. For the illiterate or the person who did not know Latin and did not have a Missal - sure that was an issue. Good reason to allow the vernacular.

Have you been to a dual language Mass? I have. Double the time and you never know what prayers will be said in what language or both. Confusing for everybody. Have you been to a Mass in a completely foreign language with no translations available? If you have, I bet you still know what’s happening.

Latin is the official langaue of the Church - and Vatican II expressly says we should keep it.

Latin is part of our heritage as Roman Rite Catholics and we are as entitled to it as Melkites are to Arabic, etc

Latin is beautiful and the most beautiful liturgical music ever written was written for Latin.

It is unifying when we all can hear Mass in a language we all have familiarity with - if we bring it back and get folks familiar with it again - it’s a sign of unity

American Churches can generally afford Missal/Missalettes that have both Latin and English/Spanish/French/ whatever.

We need to reclaim our Latin heritage and not be afraid of it - nor disparage it.

As for the guitar Masses, etc., well, as a matter of taste I can’t stand them. I truly hope they go the way of the leisure suit. Yes, I participate much better with Chant - even if I don’t sing. I participate in prayer.


#14

[quote=frommi]Not to mention it has nothing to do with the sanctity or reverence of the liturgy.
[/quote]

I could not disagree more.

The word “holy” quite literally means “set apart.” What makes a thing “sacred” or “reverent” is that it is “set apart” for God. No one makes icons of celebrities, no one drinks water at home from gold chalices, and no one keeps their wedding album in a gold tabernacle. What makes items used in a Liturgy particularly sacred is that they’re used for only one purpose: worship of God and worship of God alone.

There is no greater means of worship than with the human language and no language more “holy” than that which is “set apart” for God alone. Maybe not necessarily Latin, as Aramaic in the Maronite Churches and Greek in the Orthodox achieves similar reverence, but the point remains. Why worship God with the same tongue used to curse the man driving slow behind you or gossip about other people’s affairs?


#15

[quote=mike182d]I could not disagree more.

There is no greater means of worship than with the human language and no language more “holy” than that which is “set apart” for God alone. Maybe not necessarily Latin, as Aramaic in the Maronite Churches and Greek in the Orthodox achieves similar reverence, but the point remains. Why worship God with the same tongue used to curse the man driving slow behind you or gossip about other people’s affairs?
[/quote]

And everything you just said is an OPINION, thats it.

I think there is a great diversity of sacred options to transmit praise to God, and to communicate with God.

I personally do not believe that saying Sanctus Sanctus is any more spiritually relevant than saying Holy Holy.


#16

Which version of “Holy Holy” would that be? Our parish has several…some are definitely not what I would call ‘spiritually relevant’.

Point is, we need to get back to a universal Mass in the universal Church so that Mass is the same wherever you go. That way, you can participate vocally if you desire. I personally do not prefer an all-Latin Mass, but how wonderful it would be if we could be universal in language in at least a few parts of it, so no matter where you go to Mass in the world you could speak or sing along. Perhaps the Our Father and Sanctus Sanctus would be a good place to start.


#17

This is indeed good news. May our Lord and Lady in Heaven keep guiding and strengthening our Pope, protect him, and give him a long life.

Well frommi,

Do not doubt the work of the Holy Spirit.


#18

Latin is a dead language? Uh, sorry, no it isn’t.

First, a history lesson. Classical Latin, as found in the Mass of St. Pius V, no, that isn’t used. Castillan Spanish, Italian - all Romance languages are modern Latin. English, a Germanic language, has thousands of Latin words and variants of them.

Second - there are bound to be those who despise the very notion of ever seeing or hearing any language than English. This is a very American characteristic - many here think the rest of the world should just speak English.

What makes Latin a more sacred language for Mass is, in part, the Gregorian and Polyphonic Chant that was written for use with Latin. These forms of music were developed to give glory to God. They are not secular.

Hearing the Kyrie (yes, I know it’s Greek), ***Dominus vobiscum - et cum spiritu tuo, Sanctus, Agnus Dei - ***there is something special about these responses. In a way, they reach back over the centuries and connect us with those who have worshipped God in His Holy Church so long ago.

If Latin “kills” you, a fly swatter would likely accomplish the same thing, but faster. I regret that Latin was never available to me when I was in school.
Knowledge of Latin not only helps one understand the Romance languages, but English as well. In this way, one can learn that “and also with you” is a terrible translation of “et cum spiritu tuo”.

Guitar and Drum Masses should go the way of those imploded buildings that make the news ever so often. There is so much banal silliness that passes for music at Mass these days. In addition, learning a few words of another language never hurt anybody.

***¡El Señor sea con todos ustedes!



#19

[quote=Walking_Home]This is indeed good news. May our Lord and Lady in Heaven keep guiding and strengthening our Pope, protect him, and give him a long life.

Well frommi,

Do not doubt the work of the Holy Spirit.
[/quote]

I don’t…which is exactly why I doubt it will happen.


#20

I’ve been to masses in Spanish and Italian. While I was able to figure out where we were in the Mass, I did not understand any of it. For the most part I knew where we were based mostly on the “Catholic gymnastics,” for lack of a better word. So it wasn’t the words, it was the posture.

If I learn only the appropriate verbal responses, that doesn’t mean I understand what I am saying or what it means. It also doesn’t mean that those responses have any meaning to me. I can certainly parrot responses, but I’ve always been under the impression that spiritual things should require more than just parroting a response.

I’m not opposed to having designated Latin Masses. Fine, if it speaks better to your spirituality.

The word Dios mean less to me than the word God. When you use El Senor for God, I translate it to mean Mister. That is not a word that even comes close to having the same meaning that God has for me.

As for the fly swatter comment, that is just uncharitable. I’ve been hit by a fly swatter and it didn’t kill me. Could attending services where I can’t understand what is happening harm my relationship with God? Quite possible. I didn’t write the poem.

As far as claiming our religious heritage, let’s not just stop with Latin. We could have the Old Testament readings in Hebrew, the New Testament readings in Greek, the consecration of the Eucharist in Aramaic, the homily in the venacular, and the rest in Latin.

Folks have been clamoring for a return to Latin since the venacular was introduced. It appears to me that the language that is used is just an incidental to the actual Mass. So I guess when I can’t understand parts, I’ll just pull out my rosary or some other prayer book and pray words that actually have meaning to me. It seems like that was what my mom said they did during the Latin Mass anyway.


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