Pope saying Quran is a Holy Book?

Did B-16 say this???

Benedict XVI, footnote to speech apologizing for his comments on Islam, Sept. 2006:
“In the Muslim world, this quotation has unfortunately been taken as an expression of my personal position, thus arousing understandable indignation. I hope that the reader of my text can see immediately that this sentence does not express my personal view of the Qur’an, for which I have the respect due to the holy book of a great religion.”

I’ve never seen or heard of this quote. My traditionalist buddy showed me this as proof the papacy is officially vacant although there is a bodily presence? Does anyone know where the complete text of this is at? Appearantly this is a footnote to his apology to islam from last year. Assuming this quote is his, how does it fit in with his office. I know the statement isnt ex-cathedra, but assuming it is true, it is confusing. My understanding is that the Quran denies Jesus’ divinity and calls Christians excrement. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope I am not beating a dead horse with this one. Tried doing a search, couldnt find anything. God Bless!! Jaime

Wikipedia says he said it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_Islam_controversy

Go to “subsequent vatican statments” and “change of text”.

Even if he did write that, I don’t see the problem with it. The called the Quran “the holy book” not “a holy book”. Obviously, “holy” wasn’t intended as an adjective, but was instead part of the noun. It would have been clearer if “holy-book” had been hyphenated.

Also, in calling Islam a “great” religion, the Holy Father undoubtedly meant “great” in the sense of “considerable in size and power”.

I don’t think this is the correct quote… as Benedict was not accussed of attacking the Q’ram but Mohammed…

Blessings,

E.C.

OOOhhh yes… I can see… he says he has great respect to “the holy book of a great religion”, meaning, that the Q’ram IS the holy book of Islam… and it is… but it is not necessarily a holy book to us… and Islam sure is a great religion… HUGE religion to be exact… lots of members…

Blessings,

E.C.

Yes, the Qur’an is indeed a Holy Book, to Muslims; as the Bible is to Christians.

**St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Pt. II, Q. 12, A. 1, Obj. 2: “… **if anyone were to worship at the tomb of Mahomet, he would be deemed an apostate.”

Pope Clement V, Council of Vienne, 1311-1312:
“It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens, also called Muslims live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on Catholic princes, one and all… They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”

We have 30 mosques in Australia… :shrug:

Pope Benedict was following the example of St. Gregory VII and St. Robert Bellarmine:

This is the effect of true charity, to be on good terms with all men, to consider no one your enemy, and to live at peace with those who hate peace.–St. Robert Bellarmine

‘Almighty God, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world.–St. Gregory VII, to a Muslim prince.

He wasn’t worshipping at the tomb of Muhammed–I’m not sure why that quote was there :confused: .

As for the Council of Vienne, I don’t know of any Christian lands anymore–Australia surely is not one. It is a Liberal Democracy like most formerly Christian nations (even if Christians still live there, they are nothing like the Christian states of the past). So, the Concilliar quote cannot apply–even so, it is a time specific disciplinary decree, one that was discarded well before the 20th century.

It is a holy book. Just not ours:D

If you don’t think it’s a Holy Book, try ripping a copy of it in the middle of downtown Tehran.:smiley:

But, the world has changed since then, we don’t have Christian princes anymore, do we? I mean, Christian rulers who have the power over kingdoms to approve or forbid the practice of religions outside of Christianity. It seems that this was for an era long gone by, we live in a world of democracies and democratic republics or totalitarian goverments who are anti-Christian, these types of exhortations by the Popes or Councils would not make sense in today’s demographic and political climates. :ehh:

JMHO;)

They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”

It doesn’t say that no one can ever say anything kind reguarding Muslims or their religion. It says Catholics can’t invoke the name of Mahomet (ie-pray to Mahomet, act as though his name is holy like Jesus’). The pope didn’t do that.

The pope said the Quran is a holy book to the Muslims. That’s a fact. He said Islam is a great religion (“great” meaning substantial, large, etc). That is also a fact. He didn’t say the Quran is a holy book that Catholics should use like a Bible or Islam is a true religion like Catholicism or give any religious advice of any nature.

It’s like if I said, “The Bible is a holy book for Christians, of which there are a lot!” I’m not saying anyone should do anything. I’m stating two obvious facts, plain and simple.

:heart:

Parts of the Quran are in some respect holy… as in the parts taken out of the OT, and Christian teaching… the other parts (Pagan, Muhammads own thoughts) however arn’t… Is a mechanics books on Ferrari holy because he believes them to be truth?

Is a mechanics books on Ferrari holy because he believes them to be truth?

Then it is holy TO THE MECHANIC, if he treats it as such. The pope didn’t say the Quran was a holy book period. He said it is considered a holy book BY THE MUSLIM PEOPLE. Just like when people who don’t believe in God and the Bible say that the Bible is a holy book to Christians. They aren’t claiming to believe in it or its holiness. Only that Christians consider it to be holy.

:heart:

I’m sure the Pope recognizes that Islam recognizes the Qur’an is a Holy Book, it’s absolutely ridiculous to believe that the Pope thinks the Qur’an is a Holy Book Christians should follow.

I haven’t actually read the Quran, but I understand that it has some references to Jesus and His Mother Mary. I think it also has something about Adam and Eve, Abraham, and probably Moses. From that standpoint, a Catholic could consider it at least a partially holy book.

St. Thomas Aquinas is saying that anyone who goes on Hajj (only Moslems go on Hajj to Makkah) is an apostate. Of course this is true. What I don’t understand is what you’re trying to implicate by posting this quote, could you please elaborate a bit?

AMEN!

While that is true in that specific case, one would assume that praying in any mosque would constitute heresy… considering we cant worship in a Protestant Church…

Popes are not meant to be like Humpty-Dumpty :slight_smile: - they have no ability to make adjectives anything but adjectives. Not if they want to be understood. Otherwise, anything might mean anything.

If he was wrong, he was wrong. Or, in plain Zwwrpodrfrtgf: CEEwi yd3439 055bf :slight_smile:

On a POI - we can, & here’s a Vatican document - from 1993, 14 years ago - that proves we can: vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html -

[LIST]
*]118. In liturgical celebrations taking place in other Churches and ecclesial Communities, Catholics are encouraged to take part in the psalms, responses, hymns and common actions of the Church in which they are guests. If invited by their hosts, they may read a lesson or preach.
*]119. Regarding assistance at liturgical worship of this type, there should be a meticulous regard for the sensibilities of the clergy and people of all the Christian Communities concerned, as well as for local customs which may vary according to time, place, persons and circumstances. In a Catholic liturgical celebration, ministers of other Churches and ecclesial Communities may have the place and liturgical honors proper to their rank and their role, if this is judged desirable. Catholic clergy invited to be present at a celebration of another Church or ecclesial Community may wear the appropriate dress or insignia of their ecclesiastical office, if it is agreeable to their hosts.[/LIST]Read the whole section - even better, read the whole thing. Worship in Protestant churches is fully permitted (within wide limits - see the document for those): JP2 did a lot of it, as when he visited Canterbury Cathedral on his visit to the U.K. in 1982, 11 years before this document was published. If he could, then we could.

If more people were aware of this document, they might understand why Catholic bishops & clergy do certain things of which they, as Catholic laity, sometimes disapprove.

Didn’t Pope John Paul II kiss the Quran once??

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