Pope the anti-christ?


#1

Can the Pope be the anti-christ?
One of my Baptist co-workers was telling me her pastor said the end times are near, the signs are everywhere and the anti-christ could come from Rome and may even be the Pope. She also suggested I should watch the Left Behind series to give me something to think about (I have no plans to).
I know she is probably just trying to save my poor Catholic soul.
I just smiled and said I didn’t think it would be the Pope, to quit worrying about the end times and to live a good life and stay close to God. People have been talking about the end times forever, no one knows when the end time will be. She kinda of a nervous person who talks 100mph so its hard to get a word in. I wish I could have come up with a better answer. Any suggestions?


#2

How about this. It is a thought that crossed my mind once and I have no outside authority to base it on but it makes a measure of sense to me.

The anti-Christ is the one who is not the Christ but who is presenting themself to be the Christ. All of us who believe in Christ, from the pope to the least lay person who claims to be a Christian, represent Christ to those to whom we communicate our faith. Unfortunately all of us are sinners, flawed people who fall short of being Christ, therefore all of us, from the pope on down, could potentially be the anti-Christ. The popes problem is that, as the most visible representative of Christ, he would be the most likely to incorrectly represent Christ to someone somewhere.

I don’t know if that is a particularly helpful line of thought or not.

I would say that we can be certain of one thing: whether we are near the endtimes or we have a lifetime ahead of us - the best thing for us to do is be as Christ like as we could possibly be. That is certain and noone who makes a serious claim to be a Christian could argue with it.

“That which seperates us as believers in Christ is far less than that which unites us” - Pope John XXIII

peace

-Jim


#3

The Anti Christ is AGAINST all the things of Christ. The Pope cannot be this person, for he adores Christ and promotes our Savior.

                          Do you want my educated opinion after years of reflection? I believe the whole letter of Revelation was addressed NOT to todays church at large, but to the seven churches in Asia during the reign of Nero the mad emperor of Rome. John the Apostle, couldn't come right out and name him and so he spoke in veiled terms. But the first century church KNEW who the beast of Revelation 13 was, trust me. Nero was that beast and Antichrist. 

                          The vision of Revelation was a both a scenario of oncoming martyrdom for the early church and the comfort of knowing that they would in the end,  reign with Christ in heaven. That's really what Revelation really is all about.

                                      Ron from Ohio

#4

How can the “Vicar of Christ” (Vicarus Cristi) be the anti-Christ? The Pope is the representative of Christ on earth. How can one be against what one represents?


#5

I call this game “Pin the tail on the Beast”.

Non-Catholic Christians have long fantasized that “the Pope” is the antichrist and that “Rome” is the “Whore of Babylon.”

No, the real antichrist will preach as the new Son of God and will downplay the role of Jesus in your salvation. The person you are looking for would be usurping the place of Christ, not upholding the worship and divinity of Christ as does our Pope.


#6

[quote=The Barrister]I call this game “Pin the tail on the Beast”.

Non-Catholic Christians have long fantasized that “the Pope” is the antichrist and that “Rome” is the “Whore of Babylon.”

No, the real antichrist will preach as the new Son of God and will downplay the role of Jesus in your salvation. The person you are looking for would be usurping the place of Christ, not upholding the worship and divinity of Christ as does our Pope.
[/quote]

A great example of an anti-Christ is the Rev. Sun Myung Moon. You can read about him here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon


#7

Because of the on-going presence of the Holy Spirit in the Church, it would be impossible for thr pope to be THE Ant-Christ. The most authoritative scholarship assigns authorship of the Book of Revelation to St. John towards the end of the first century, probably during the reign of Emperor Domitian around 90 A.D. As apocalyptic literature, Revelation was composed on several levels. Historically, it was addressed to 7 churches in the Roman province of Asia (modern-day Turkey). The number of the beast, 666, most likely refers to Nero and his persecution of Christians in the 50s and 60s A.D. Aside from its historical context, Revelation also relates to the Last Days or End Times in conjunction with the Second–and final–Coming. In this context, the book describes a specific man, not yet identified, as ***THE Anti-Christ. ***Many Protestants, starting with Luther, chose to identify ***THE Anti-Christ ***with the pope and the Vatican with the Whore of Babylon sitting on the seven hills of Rome. However, there’s a problem with this interpretation because Vatican Hill was not one of the seven hills of Rome.


#8

[quote=ann]Can the Pope be the anti-christ?
One of my Baptist co-workers was telling me her pastor said the end times are near, the signs are everywhere and the anti-christ could come from Rome and may even be the Pope. She also suggested I should watch the Left Behind series to give me something to think about (I have no plans to).
I know she is probably just trying to save my poor Catholic soul.
I just smiled and said I didn’t think it would be the Pope, to quit worrying about the end times and to live a good life and stay close to God. People have been talking about the end times forever, no one knows when the end time will be. She kinda of a nervous person who talks 100mph so its hard to get a word in. I wish I could have come up with a better answer. Any suggestions?/
QUOTE] REPENT OF THE DEVILS FAITH AT ONCE!!
[/quote]


#9

[quote=pmc]REPENT OF THE DEVILS FAITH AT ONCE!!
[/quote]

:confused:


#10

[/quote]

I’m perplexed, too. I wonder if “pmc” could stand for “permanent mental constipation.”


#11

[quote=pmc]REPENT OF THE DEVILS FAITH AT ONCE!!
[/quote]

The devil’s faith? I didn’t know he had a faith…how many does he have? Which are they? Can I have my own faith, too?


#12

Ron: While what you said may very well be true on one level, Revelation is hardly the only book that speaks of the Anti-Christ nor end times. (The OT is full of stuff on the Day of the Lord, God’s great judgement, the Tribulation of the Saints, and all that). See for example 2 Thes. 2:3. There are various references to the Antichrist under various titles, here called the Man of Lawlessness, who will eventually be revealed as the Catechism confirms. The Catechism makes it clear that there will be a coming THE Antichrist. See CCC#675-677, for the Church’s official teaching on the pending Tribulation of the Church and the rule of the Antichrist.

The book of Daniel speaks of 4 beasts, which represent 4 empires. (See Daniel 7, and for the same general prophecy in a different form, see Daniel 2). Traditionally they have been taken as the Babylonians, the Medes and Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans. We are told in Daniel that the fourth beast would cease for a time and then return (I’m not sure in which chapter, I couldn’t find it off-hand, I know it’s in there though!). I don’t know if this view is shared by any Catholic scholars (I’m a former Evangelical seeking full communion with the Church) but I have always been under the impression that the revival of the fourth beast is a reference to the Antichrist’s kingdom at the end of the age.


#13

[quote=Cosmo]The devil’s faith? I didn’t know he had a faith…how many does he have? Which are they? Can I have my own faith, too?
[/quote]

Oh, he does alrite – if not more than we do … He believes that Christ is the Son of God. He’s been defeated bu Him, of all things! What he lack, though, is the love and adoration of God and His commandments.

Somoone once said, “Satan is the greatest theologian.”

*Jas 2:18 * “But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.”
*Jas 2:20 * “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”
*Jas 2:26 * “For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.”

“Not anyone who cries, ‘Lord, Lord’ will be saved.” – one of the Epistles, as well. :thumbsup:


#14

[quote=mrS4ntA]Oh, he does alrite – if not more than we do … He believes that Christ is the Son of God. He’s been defeated bu Him, of all things! What he lack, though, is the love and adoration of God and His commandments.
[/quote]

It sure sounds like Satan is causing God more than a few problems. If indeed God’s already defeated him, why didn’t God just make things easier and do away with Satan once and for all? Sounds like that’d make everything much better for everyone involved - especially God.


#15

[quote=Cosmo]It sure sounds like Satan is causing God more than a few problems. If indeed God’s already defeated him, why didn’t God just make things easier and do away with Satan once and for all? Sounds like that’d make everything much better for everyone involved - especially God.
[/quote]

I mean in terms of freeing Man of Satan’s dominion. Anyhow, God chooses not to eliminate a single soul… :thumbsup:


#16

[quote=mrS4ntA]I mean in terms of freeing Man of Satan’s dominion. Anyhow, God chooses not to eliminate a single soul… :thumbsup:
[/quote]

God certainly could free everyone from Satan’s dominion, if he so desired. He also could eliminate all the souls he wanted, if he so desired. But still the question remains - why have this silly battle going on between God and Satan if all God has to do is will Satan out of existence?


#17

[quote=Cosmo]God certainly could free everyone from Satan’s dominion, if he so desired. He also could eliminate all the souls he wanted, if he so desired. But still the question remains - why have this silly battle going on between God and Satan if all God has to do is will Satan out of existence?
[/quote]

I guess it all comes down to God’s persistence in His gifts for us: free will.
Anyhow… it’s not for us to question God’s motives. I, for one, am not gonna argue with Him. :wink:


#18

[quote=mrS4ntA]I guess it all comes down to God’s persistence in His gifts for us: free will.
Anyhow… it’s not for us to question God’s motives. I, for one, am not gonna argue with Him. :wink:
[/quote]

I’m not quite certain where free will came into this, but I’ll not address that here.

If you had the power and the ability to eradicate Satan (and evil, as well) with a minimum of effort and no danger to yourself, wouldn’t you? Why has God not done this?

World War II comes to mind. America had the power and the ability to eliminate Hitler, yet it still took a few years (until Pearl Harbor) for the decision to invade to come about. How could you possibly justify America making any other decision about it? The same goes for God, I think.


#19

[quote=Cosmo]I’m not quite certain where free will came into this, but I’ll not address that here.

If you had the power and the ability to eradicate Satan (and evil, as well) with a minimum of effort and no danger to yourself, wouldn’t you? Why has God not done this?

World War II comes to mind. America had the power and the ability to eliminate Hitler, yet it still took a few years (until Pearl Harbor) for the decision to invade to come about. How could you possibly justify America making any other decision about it? The same goes for God, I think.
[/quote]

Like I said, with our infitesimal knowledge of life, universe, and everything, I guess it’s not our place to question God’s motives. He has it all in plan. It’s a sad reality for sin, but we have to live with it I guess.


#20

Nay-sayers like your friends Baptist preacher have been predicting the end of the world for 2,000 years now. Last time I looked they were all wrong.

There was a large Catholic movement about 1,000 A.D. if I recall correctly that predicted the end of time that year. Of course they were wrong and the Catholics have never had any significant Nay-sayers since. Joe Smith, a great Mormon prophet, predicted the end of times incorrectly in the 1800’s.

Scripture is clear, nobody can predict the end times when Jesus will return. Not even a Baptist preacher! Don’t wory about the end of times. Just worry about your own Faith, Hope and Love. Make sure you will pass the final test whenever that test occures. Endure to the end and Jesus promised you a great reward. Lets worry about important things like our evangelisation or our families or feeding the poor. Ignore end times all together! If you follow Christ, as the Catholic Church teaches you to, you will not have to worry about the end times for you will be on the side of Jesus!

Jesus appointed St. Peter/Kephas and his successors as the leaders of His Church on earth. Jesus gave the first Pope the ‘keys’ and thus the authority to rule/manage His body on earth. I doubt Jesus makes mistakes so I know the Pope cannot be the anti-Christ. This Baptist preacher would have to assume Jesus can error by appointing the anti-Christ to lead His Church until His return. I’ll put my "F"aith behind the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit who wacth over the Pope and protect His (Jesus’) Church, the Catholic Church, His body!

It is sad that some preachers must preach lies and hatred to get others to pay them attention and misslead their followers. Shame on them, shame. Hopefully Jesus will have mercy on their soul and not hang a great millstone around their neck! Those preachers filled with lies and hate need our prayers. Please pray for them and ask Blessed Mary and all the Saints to pray to God for them as well.

The left behind series is so full of theological errors that the only thing left behind is the truth. The author is a well known Catholic basher and this book is an example. The theology is all wrong and the hatred of Catholics is easily seen. See the other threads on this forum that deal with the “Left Behind” series of bad theology.


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