Pope the antichrist


#1

My Baptist friends believe this Pope Joan thing. They also believe that the Whore of Babylon in Revelations is the Catholic Church and the Pope the antichrist.
Can anyone help me say a little more then , your wrong!


#2

[quote=Ed Langevin]My Baptist friends believe this Pope Joan thing. They also believe that the Whore of Babylon in Revelations is the Catholic Church and the Pope the antichrist.
Can anyone help me say a little more then , your wrong!
[/quote]

I can suggest a couple of books:
[list]
*]Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths and Misconceptions About the Papacy by Patrick Madrid
*]Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians” by Karl Keating
[/list]The first one is dispelling all the lies about the papacy and the second is a more general apologetics book.

PF


#3

One thing you could start with:

regarding “Pope Joan”- historical fact. Reference current events, ask them if the priest scandal got a lot of attention? Ask them to recount how the media and people in general reacted to this…Catholics alike. They will, no doubt, describe the circus that followed and is still going on.

Then ask them to explain why, exactly, it too 400 YEARS for the first account to come about of this alleged incident? Wouldn’t a POPE giving BIRTH, which is a very noisy, messy occastion, cause a great deal of consternation and hullabaloo? Worthy of several eyewitness accounts? Worth of ON THE SPOT “reporting” from that very time period?

These people do not have a grasp of logic, so you have to force them to use it. Likely they’ll still bury their heads in the sand, but that makes it easier to brush the sand from your own hands and feet and walk away.

The “Whore of Babylon” thing? Yeah…I have a friend who is a Protestant Evangelical Pastor. He says that those who refer to the Catholic Church as the “Whore of Babylon” have clearly not read Revelation and spend more time criticizing others then they do trying to follow in the footsteps of Jesus.

Others here will give you a great answer,on that, but regarding the former, do some research and you will find an abundance of logic to contradict this myth.

Just remember to keep your cool when talking to them. That will drive them nuts. Imagine Jesus is standing next to you while you have these conversations and act accordingly.

Good luck!

If all else fails, tell them that the “Whore of Babylon” is your mother and see if they open and close their mouths like fishes while they try to think up a response to such an outrageous comment.


#4

Don’t be discouraged if your friends don’t listen. Many people can be slapped in the face with truth a billion times and it never registers because they would rather believe the lies. Look at how easily people have latched onto this RIDICULOUS fable. I mean, the fact that she supposedly gave birth whilst in a papal procession doesn’t seem outrageous to anyone? People that have an unreasonable hatred of the Catholic Church may not be able to be reached by words, so also pray to the Holy Spirit for their enlightenment. :thumbsup:


#5

Ed–

I admire you. You’ve taken on something that most of us wouldn’t attempt. As a convert from a Baptist family with a cousin and an uncle in Protestant ministry, may I make a reflection? I swear I’m not cynical; but I’ve seen, heard, and know these people.

No amount of reasoning will turn them.

They are like women twisted by anarexia. An analogy I make because the problem is spiritual or psychological. Have you ever tried to *reason * with someone with anarexia?

You can show them facts, a mirror, a hospital monitor showing that they’re dying, a doctor who says they will die if they don’t eat—but the anarexic will not believe.

Something is wrong with their head. No amount of reasoning will turn them to the truth.

I know Scott Hahn was anti-Catholic at one time. Have you tried reading Rome Sweet Home? Maybe it would give you insights.

Thankyou for not losing hope for your friend. I think I’ll try yet again with my family. Wish me luck!! – I mean God’s speed!


#6

A long time ago, I had a professor of theology who use to say,“Don’t get your theology frrom Time Magazine” (or any other publication like it) I put the recent ABC presentation in this same catagory. These publications are not interested in serious theology, or for that matter history. There only goal is to sell their magazine or provide a vehicle for their advertizers to present their goods. So I would dismiss, outright, what was presented. It was just non-existant history but merely courious speculation without and creditable evidence (how ofter in presentations in presentations like this do we here, “there was a rumor” or "some said…, without any backing?)

But I guess the bottom line is, as it has already been presented, people will believe what they want to believe and no matter what evidence or reasonable argument is presented, they will not change their minds. For some reason, Christ’s own words comes to mind when he was in a bitter diologue with some religious leaders and He ended up saying something to the effect that they were so closed minded these people would believe if someone came back from the dead and told them the truth.


#7

You know the sad thing about all this talk of Pope Joan? My daughters principal, a nun actually told my daughter about 5 yrs ago that there was a woman pope…boy did I have to talk with my daughter about that one! If I had been stronger, I would have confronted the nun too, but she was my boss at the time and I had 3 kids going to school on grants at the time.


#8

Scriban is absolutely correct. I too was once a Pentecostal. My youngest brother is a Pentecostal Pastor. They believe that the Catholic church is Satan’s copy. Therefore they believe that I and my family have no salvation… :frowning:


#9

That “the Pope is the antichrist” stuff began with Martin Luther–he had to say that to justify some of his crazy actions and Protestants have ate that stuff up ever since. For people who claim to follow the Bible and only the Bible they sure got off track with that one, didn’t they?!


#10

I’ve actually read about this “Pope Joan” from many neutral sources over the years. I think they’re even planning to make a movie out of it. Of course, much like any other scandal against the Catholic Church, it just gets summarily denied. I’m sure the sex scandal will be written as legend in a few hundred years as well.


#11

With respect to the false notion that the Pope is the Antichrist, the commentary in the 1859 Haydock Catholic Bible Commentary on the book of Revelation (the Apocalypse) might be useful, especially that on Chapter 13 and the following chapters.


#12

[quote=JoeyWarren]Scriban is absolutely correct. I too was once a Pentecostal. My youngest brother is a Pentecostal Pastor. They believe that the Catholic church is Satan’s copy. Therefore they believe that I and my family have no salvation… :frowning:
[/quote]

I heard one news program say that the new pope is a big supporter of the United Nations…think about it. :rolleyes:


#13

Please checkout,[catholic.com/library/Hunting_the_Whore_of_Babylon. also http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/whore_of_babylon.htm](http://www.catholic.com/library/Hunting_the_Whore_of_Babylon. also http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/whore_of_babylon.htm)


#14

Please check,ewtn.com/expert/answers/whore_of_babylon.htm and catholic.com/library/Hunting_the_Whore_of_Babylon.asp


#15

[quote=PiusXIII]That “the Pope is the antichrist” stuff began with Martin Luther–he had to say that to justify some of his crazy actions and Protestants have ate that stuff up ever since. For people who claim to follow the Bible and only the Bible they sure got off track with that one, didn’t they?!
[/quote]

POI - it predates Luther by at least 200 years


#16

[quote=ChristianWAB]I’ve actually read about this “Pope Joan” from many neutral sources over the years. I think they’re even planning to make a movie out of it. Of course, much like any other scandal against the Catholic Church, it just gets summarily denied. I’m sure the sex scandal will be written as legend in a few hundred years as well.
[/quote]

Probably - almost certainly, in fact.

Certain kinds of history virtually write themselves.

The difference is that none of the dates suggested for Pope Joan are any good for her supposed reign - they are all occupied. Unless she lived in a parallel reality, in which her reign could happen. Maybe a scientifictional story is wanted :slight_smile: - there was a rather good film about her not long on British TV; very silly, but rather fun. ##


#17

Was Luther the first to declare the pope the antichrist?
And ever since then every pope has been declared an antichrist by someone.
JPII was considered the anti-christ by the same folks who now consider Benedict to be the anti-christ.
Which is it? Which pope over the last 500 years was the antichrist? Or were they ALL the anti-christ?

Clearly they have been wrong about this over and over as the anti-christ has not yet appeared - and they have been guilty of slandering many good men.


#18

Read St. Robert Bellarmine, he goes off about this whole topic, it’s pretty interesting.


#19

[quote=ChristianWAB] Of course, much like any other scandal against the Catholic Church, it just gets summarily denied. I’m sure the sex scandal will be written as legend in a few hundred years as well.
[/quote]

Hi there ChWAB -

This simply not true. The USCCB keeps published statistics -

usccb.org/ocyp/webstudy.shtml

Subrosa


#20

[quote=ChristianWAB]I’ve actually read about this “Pope Joan” from many neutral sources over the years. I think they’re even planning to make a movie out of it. Of course, much like any other scandal against the Catholic Church, it just gets summarily denied. I’m sure the sex scandal will be written as legend in a few hundred years as well.
[/quote]

Neutral source? Only Atheists are neutral.

Pope Joan? If that had actually happened I am 100% sure it would have been exploited in all of the history books. But it hasn’t.

If you believe Pope Joan as fact, you must as well believe in The Davinci Code as well.

Sex scandal is not limited to the Catholic church. Here in the tri-city area where I live, there have been 3 reported cases in the last year alone of sexual molestations of girls by 3 distinct protestant pastors, and all 3 being of the fundamentalist protestant type.

But you will never see this on CNN or on any front page of any major newspaper because Satan protects it’s own…


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