The Holy Father’s visit is very packed. May his visit be safe and bring spiritual strength to Ireland.
It’s also controversial. This is not the same era as when Pope John Paul II visited and whilst some people such as myself would welcome the visit there is also quite a number of people protesting it and angry about what they perceive as a waste of money.
But if he didn’t go to Ireland he would simply go somewhere else, which would also cost money. Do these people not want him to travel anywhere?
I am Irish and I will not be attending. I will pray that the Popes visit will go well, I would like the recent abortion referendum to be addressed and the faithful Catholics in this lost country to be given some hope. The Pope will be meeting out anti Catholic Taoiseach Varadkar who promoted heavily for abortion and with his government are constantly attacking the church. The Irish president Higgins is an atheist who back in 1983, when the abortion referendum results were coming in, John Bowman (broadcaster) interupted the broadcast to say that they had to go the the Angelus, and Michael D Higgins could be clearly heard saying “well, that’s very f#@$ing appropriate”.
Many in this country have purchased dozens of tickets but have no intention of attending, just so they can stop those who want to attend going - some sort of childish protest you could say.
The Pope can hardly only meet those who are ardent Catholics if he visit nations in fairness to him. Tomarin, the view of many people in Ireland is the security preparations etc. and cost of his vist are essentially a waste of money and some of the comments I’ve seen exchanged on it are pretty nasty. Along the lines of ‘He can earn his keep and dig a grave for all the babies thrown in septic tanks’, the Church whilst still important in the lives of more Irish people than might seem at first apparent is also held in low esteem at this point by many as well and it is unlikely the authority and force it had in Ireland will ever be what it was once.
Oh I see, security costs. Got it.
It seems that at one time they (the bishops of the church) wielded an enormous amount of power in non-theological matters, perhaps in excess of what would have been wise.
Perhaps the Irish will soften their hearts and be stirred to talk with Our Lord and His Mother Mary. Pray for this return. The elements of the progressive/leftists back with money have entered the country and the darkness of Satan that used the sins of priests and nuns to do great harm - is the same everywhere in the world. Cleanse the souls of people through prayer and shepherds - the sheepdog kind.
This is part of the problem and has contributed to the issues at present. The perception among many younger people, and some not so young, is that the Church wield power that made it a de facto arm of the govt. Issues like the mother and child scheme and others from the past are well remembered. It is certainly a struggle for even those like myself who hang on to their faith to look at some of the behaviour and remember that failure is universal and that the Church is a world wide institution and you can except such major failures at times from the all too human representatives of it.
It’s hardly as simple as that. Talk of progressives and leftists is attempting to load American politics onto an Irish backdrop. Plenty of people from all sorts of political backgrounds have become disenchanted with the Church over time or at the very least far less attached to it. Pope Francis is a humble man and that may appeal to people, but he faces a climate in which the Church is seen as covering up institutional abuse in Ireland for decades and the anger about that is very, very real.
Talk of progressives and leftists in Ireland is describing the opposing forces that approved abortion recently and was sponsored financially from outside money brought into the country. That was a huge damage to the souls that were weakened. Reawakening the spirit of Life takes just a spark - it hasn’t been extinguished as much as other countries. St. Pio said “Pray, hope, and don’t worry”!
Their was no need for outside money brought into the country, the move to change the constitution regarding this had been a battle ground for decades. Previous referendums had narrowly kept the status quote going but it was becoming fairly obvious that eventually the vote would go the other way.
I’d just like to make a point, the septic tank story is a hoax. The Irish media had taken and twisted this story that began with the work of a “local historian” in Tuam, they basically put around the world a story that a Holocaust had occurred in Tuam.
I was a little surprised it passed, as well as saddened, but it was among other things a reminder that the Ireland of 2018 is not the Ireland of decades past, perhaps due to closer integration with the EU or changing sentiments among the young or growing affluence or the disenchantment with the Church you were referencing.
Agreed and I know the real story is far more complex, however many people are not going to go the trouble of looking past the original rather sensationalist reports. That’s sadly life, truth is just getting out of bed whilst lies have gone half way round the world.
The changes involve all sorts of factors, all the issues you identify have some role to play but there are also loads of others. The Church promoted and endorsed a view of Ireland as very ‘closed off’ from the barbarians over the water (meaning the UK) that was simply not sustainable in the long run and ultimately became laughable. Certainly that view was far more muted in recent decades and expressed far more ironically but it was there, even when I was growing up there was a view in many an Irish household in the Irish community in Britain that the English lacked public morality or respect for God in the same way as the Irish. It certainly wasn’t often voiced outside the home but it was there and older Irish people still feel that way but they are dying of and for good or ill their children and grandchildren have very different views of the role the Church should play in society.
Saying there was no “need” for outside forces to supply money in order to sway approval of abortion does not negate that Planned Parenthood has HUGE interests in providing abortion in Ireland. Perhaps the people will see the horrific evil that has entered. The money was supplied and put to use - no denying the effect.
All things are possible through God and the Holy Father’s visit may be the “Knock” on the door!
That’s interesting - is that part of some partisan rivalry between the Catholic Church and the Church of England or is it simply a biproduct of being on the sharp end of British imperialism for so many years, do you think? I can draw a parallel with unspoken (because they were deeply held and therefore didn’t need to be) attitudes that I absorbed in my own childhood.
A bit of both I think, also how seriously it was or is meant to be taken is hard to say. It’s paradoxical and awkward. Certainly a distrust of authority is endemic still amongst the Irish. My father is elderly and I urged him to apply for ‘Attendance Allowance’ a year or two ago which is a payment the govt. makes to the immobile to help them with their needs. He refused to do so at first on the logic that ‘Filling in those govt. forms means those boys will be in your house morning, noon and night’ and ‘That govt. lads who make up these forms are the kind of boys you set the dogs on when they come to the door’. This kind of ardent dislike of filling in paperwork or getting involved with the authorities in any way was very much a feature of the Irish community in London growing up. People preferred to handle all bills in cash and do everything via verbal agreements if possible.
Planned Parenthood and other groups had an influence, however abortion would have been legalised inevitably, the Church essentially destroyed itself in Ireland and the more savvy Churchmen are aware of that and don’t hide from it and confront it dead on.
A view of the government and its bureaucratic tendrils as essentially predatory.