Pope visits Italian president [CC]

On November 14, Pope Francis crossed Rome to visit Italian President Giorgio Napolitano, making the first state visit of his pontificate to the Quirinal Palace.Arriving in a simple …


Hey, all.

First time posting on the Catholic News section.

I was recently shown a video of President Napolitano congratulating the Current Pontiff for, what I could interpret, not being strict on Doctrine/Dogma but instead, being an agent of the “Spirit of the Second Vatican Council” and allowing the meaning of the Gospel to be re-interpreted to the demands of the Modern World.

I am very disconcerted that a politician has the audacity to tell the pontiff that he thanks him for making the Church…less Catholic>

What does he mean by “Spirit of Second Vatican Council”?

It is my concern that, like almost everyone else on this planet, people adore and thank this pontiff for all the wrong reasons.



The spirit of Vatican II is dying, thankfully, because it has little ideological progeny.

Keep in mind that this is a socialist politician who has a strong bias and certainly does not have the Church’s best interest in mind.

To the bold, I agree that many people like him for all the wrong reasons, but I think the numbers of those people are slowly starting to diminish as the truth about him becomes more widely known.

And I agree that the “spirit of Vat II” stuff is gradually, but steadily, dying out (thank God).

I see nothing wrong with Vatican II at all. I don’t see that it is dying out. I think the Italian PM remarks were either ill-informed, or possibly ill-intentioned. Who knows?
There have been few councils in the history of the Church that did not result in leaves falling from the tree. New ones grow to take their place. What matters is the spirit of Christ remains the same. As so many people on CAF point out, the way the message is presented over time changes, but the doctrine remains the same.

Christ’s Church will endure for ever.

Pope Francis should be concerned anytime a Western politician congratulates him.

However, the culture war against social progressives cannot be our only focus.

If you look on this forum, for instance, there are GLBTQ folks who are trying to be good Catholics and have rejected the satanic false promise of so-called gay “marriage”. There are also other confused souls who need our prayers and guidance from those qualified to give it.

There’s no doubt that Pope Francis main interest is saving souls.

And frankly, constantly fighting in this culture war gets to be cumbersome with diminishing returns. Ultimately, the economic woes in the West will be what gets people’s attention, so if you are interested that, I suggest speaking in those terms and along the lines of natural.

The “because the Bible tells me so” is frankly a waste of time, and it’s good that Pope Francis recognizes it.

The Italian PM is being a politician. This kind of comment is meant to soothe the left.

Pope Francis isn’t going to change Church on social issues anymore than the Popes before him.

His approach is just different.

I think you are carrying the judgment of this event into something that is not there. Pope Francis is teaching to put faith into action. That is what is happening. Vatican II was an enormous gift for the Church so that the doors for the Laity to go through will be more present. This emerging Laity takes time for it to be put into action. The struggles for this emerging Laity will have its problems but it is emerging and I am sure this is what the present Pope is accomplishing by been its foremost example.

Yes, however, what is meant by “spirit of Vatican II” is something entirely different from what you are talking about.

Vatican II was no less legitimate than any of the preceding church councils. The disrespect it sometimes receives is in contradiction to church doctrine. Defending criticism of VII, by saying one is criticizing the spirit of Vatican II, and not Vatican II itself, is engaging in Semantics.

All the arguments which go to prove the infallibility of the Church apply with their fullest force to the infallible authority of general councils in union with the pope. For conciliary decisions are the ripe fruit of the total life-energy of the teaching Church actuated and directed by the Holy Ghost.


So, you would equivocate all the illegitimate things done in the name of Vatican II with Vatican II?

We’re not talking about the actual Council, we’re talking about “the spirit of Vatican II”, a phrase that is often used to describe the doctrinal and liturgical abuses that came after the Council.

Yes, but it would seem from the poster’s actual post, that he is equivocating the spirit of Vatican II with Vatican II, that the former is a natural and good consequence of the latter.

Once again there’s a big need for clarity from Pope Francis.

Not to worry. The news media is on top of it, picking up and translating stuff as they see fit.

Well, I don’t speak Italian, but I’m pretty sure it’s not like the President didn’t say that.

Just to point out that “Presidente della Repubblica Italiana” is a figurehead ‘ribbon-cutting’ job, the powerful job is that of “Presidente del Consiglio dei Ministri” (the equivalent to the UK’s Prime Minister or German Chancellor).

Okay but somehow using “impressed with” and “lack of” in the same sentence seems weird in the English. (My rhetoric instructor would have marked it “awkward.”) Note, though, I’m not defending the Italian president.

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