Possible SSPX Return to Church?

(September 14th, 2009)

Vatican-SSPX talks to start “in next few days," says Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schönborn.

This should be good.

From Reuter’s Blogs:

"In their public statements, SSPX bishops were triumphant after the decree lifting the excommunications was published and determined to stand firm in its meetings with the Vatican. It’s interesting to note that they describe these upcoming sessions as “meetings” or “doctrinal discussions” (entretiens doctrinaux), while Schönborn calls them “negotiations” (Verhandlungen). Since the full reintegration of the SSPX is at stake, the word “negotiations” seems more suited to these sessions.

Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, one of the four readmitted, said the bishops had no intention of changing their views in these sessions.” No, absolutely not,” he said. *“We do not change our positions, but we have *the intention of converting Rome, that is, to lead Rome towards our positions.”"


With an attitude like that is it possible that it may be over before it even begins?

Am I wrong, or should this NOT be played out in the media?

For some reason, talks of this delicacy being spoken of like union negotiations during a strike, seem vulgar to me, lacking in dignity.

I wonder, if some of these “negotiators” are involved in a conclave, they’ll go stumping, running attack ads, and issuing between-votes press releases.

ZE09091511 - 2009-09-15
Permalink: zenit.org/article-26878?l=english
Vatican-Pius X Society Talks Set for October

Reveals Names of Holy See Delegation

VATICAN CITY, SEPT. 15, 2009 (Zenit.org).
Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, confirmed today that the meeting will take place during the last two weeks of October.

He also revealed the three Vatican representatives: Dominican Father Charles Morerod, secretary-general of the International Theological Commission, Jesuit Josef Becker, and the vicar general of Opus Dei, Father Ocariz Brana.

He also “the SSPX will be told very clearly what is not negotiable for the Holy See. This includes such fundamental conclusions of the Second Vatican Council as its* positions on Judaism*, other non-Christian religions, other Christian churches and on religious freedom as a basic human right.”

In July, Benedict XVI restructured the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, uniting it more closely to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The commission was formed in 1988 for those communities and persons who, coming from the Society of St. Pius X or from similar groups, wish to return to full communion with the Successor of Peter.

The president of the commission is the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, currently Cardinal William Levada. The Holy Father appointed as secretary Monsignor Guido Pozzo, who is currently assistant secretary of the International Theological Commission and official of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In March, Benedict XVI lifted the excommunications of four Lefebvrite bishops who were excommunicated in 1988 when they received episcopal ordination illicitly at the hands of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who ordained them without papal permission.

The decree to lift the excommunications was made public days after one of the four – Bishop Richard Williamson – appeared on Swedish television in a previously taped interview in which he refuted the extent of Holocaust. A furor ensued which led Vatican-Jewish relations to the breaking point.

In a March letter to the world’s bishops, explaining why he had lifted the excommunications, Benedict XVI announced his intention to place the commission under the guidance of the doctrinal congregation.

He said it “will make it clear that the problems now to be addressed are essentially doctrinal in nature and concern primarily the acceptance of the Second Vatican Council and the post-conciliar magisterium of the popes.”

The SSPX is in communion with the Church. That’s why it’s considered an internal matter, rather than an ecumenical matter.:smiley:

Okay, it’s a slow Saturday. I’ll bite.

SSPX is a priestly society which “has no canonical status in the Church,” made up of priests who “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

I agree that it’s an internal matter, but how can you say that priests who “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church” but persist in saying Mass and hearing confessions are in communion with the Church?

Quotes from the Pope’s letter of 10 March 2009.

It’s all in how you phrase it: “triumphant”, “determined to stand firm”.

Somebody shout: “Fight, fight!”. There’s more news in trumping up a conflict.

Also: Anyone know what Cardinal Schonborn’s role is in these negotiations, or if he has one?

What does it mean that the “SSPX is in communion”? Can you show where the Church has actually stated this?

Pope Benedict said in Ecclesia Unitatem “However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.”

So how can they be in communion yet have no canonical status?

So my question is if SSPX refuses to accept VII which I read is a non-negotiable term with Rome then what? A formal schism? It took many years to get to this point any ideas to how many more years could this take for any type of outcome considering this is such an intense issue?

I realize that in the past Rome has taken a long time for certain matters to be resolved but I would think that much of that had to do with technology ie: communication advancement and ease of travel. As well as matters of faith, doctrine, theology etc.

Is this a last ditch effort or is it just the beginning of real negotiations?

I wonder what conditions the SSPX will put on the table?. Hopefully that spectacle Masses like those going on in Austria are immediately put to an end. And that all those responsible for such fiascoes are warned sternly. Including Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schönborn.

It certainly shows that Fr. Fellay thinks like most historical schismatics… “I’m right, the Church is Wrong.” Just like Fr. Martin Luther.

If he truly has hardened his heart that way, it bodes ill for reunion.

Maybe if you had your Divine Liturgies replaced with pop Liturgies you would be better able to understand the problems facing the Roman Rite and Bishop Fellay’s position!. I for the life of me, cannot understand why Eastern Catholics are siding with the likes of the Archbishop of Vienna and his liturgically liberal side. No wonder the Orthodox are hesitant at any form of reunion.

Unlike Martin Luther, the SSPX are not advocating new doctrines, but rather a return to traditional Catholicism.

Fr Fellay accepted an episcopal ordination he knew was illicit, accepted election to lead a society he knew was irregular, and has rejected the Church.

I’ve never seen the kinds of stuff the so-called “traditionalists” so often scream and rant about. Locally, the Roman Rite Dioceses are all filled with reverent liturgies.

The attempt is to reconcile the sspx to the Church, not the other way around. The article states that there are positions that the Holy See has said is “non-negotiable.” To echo the above sentiments, what will happen if the sspx walks away from this ? Will it finally be time to declare the sspx to be formally schismatic?

Just like Martin Luther, the sspx are putting themselves in a position of illegitimate authority. It is not their place to decide what it is to have a “return to traditional Catholicism.” There are many who would maintain that participating in illicit ordinations and illicit celebrations of the Mass are far from “traditional Catholicism.” Pope Benedict is being very generous and loving to go to the lengths of reconciliation with the sspx that he has; hopefully, they will not turn a defiant hand to the Holy Father once again.

I pray this goes well. Pope Benedict needs the SSPX as a counterweight against bishops in places Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc.

They probably are.

Reverently ‘celebrated’ with the priest facing West. Reverently said using a text minus old, beautiful, prayers and in the local lingo. Reverently having communion dispensed by lay-women into the congregant’s hands. Reverently using unvested lay people in the sanctuary. And that’s before you do a before and after comparison of the text itself.

Coming soon: Female deaconesses? Don’t say ‘no way’. It just needs to become common enough for Bishops to apply for an indult on the basis that it’s ‘The Holy Spirit at work amongst the people’.

I’m sure Communion in the hand, standing, was unthinkable in the 60’s. Good luck to the SSPX. If you stand back and objectively do a mental ‘before and after’ snapshot of our religion pre and post 1940’s you can see where they’re coming from.

According to this statement the same could be said for the sede vacanists-apparently the line here is very thin, almost blurred.

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