Post menopausal sexual pain


#1

My wife and I have been married 41 years and she went through menopause a few years back. Since then, sex for her has been extremely painful. She’s gone to several doctors and they prescribed self vaginal dilation and masturbation to stretch and lubricate. We’ve tried the “tab A and slot B” process but we just become more frustrated. I can no longer finish what we’ve started, knowing I’m causing her pain. The doctors say this is a treatable problem, but the treatment seems to be against Catholic teaching. They’ve also told her for her psychological and physical health, the longer she delays, the worse it will become. In other words, use it or loose it. We’re both not ready to give up the beautiful unity and closeness we once had.
I have to believe other Catholic couples have struggled with this and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :confused:


#2

[quote="shipwrkd, post:1, topic:286700"]
My wife and I have been married 41 years and she went through menopause a few years back. Since then, sex for her has been extremely painful. She's gone to several doctors and they prescribed self vaginal dilation and masturbation to stretch and lubricate. We've tried the "tab A and slot B" process but we just become more frustrated. I can no longer finish what we've started, knowing I'm causing her pain. The doctors say this is a treatable problem, but the treatment seems to be against Catholic teaching. They've also told her for her psychological and physical health, the longer she delays, the worse it will become. In other words, use it or loose it. We're both not ready to give up the beautiful unity and closeness we once had.
I have to believe other Catholic couples have struggled with this and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :confused:

[/quote]

A simple prescription for Premarin Cream (or its less expensive generic equivalent) has worked wonders for so many with this very common problem after menopause. It can be applied externally (or internally if the doctor feels that's needed) as often as the doctor determines (usually starts out every other day or so and then can often be cut back to once or twice/week or even less often once things are back to normal). Can take a few weeks, sometimes a bit longer, of faithful use for it to work up completely to the desired result, but it can do amazing things. Please have your wife ask the doctor about it. He could likely prescribe it over the phone without even going back again for another visit. You can also Google "Premarin" to learn more about it.
Good luck. I truly think you'll be amazed at the results as many have been. Prayers heading your way.


#3

[quote="bmaj, post:2, topic:286700"]
You can also Google "Premarin" to learn more about it.
Good luck. I truly think you'll be amazed at the results as many have been. Prayers heading your way.

[/quote]

Thank you so much. We have Googled and talked with her doctor about Premarin but she is at risk for breast cancer (runs in her family) and heart disease so we're looking for a more natural solution. Her gynecologist also believes there may be some reflex tightening from the past pain. Have you found Premarin to help this as it may be the next step even with the side effects. Thanks for the prayers, at this stage we're not sure to pray for her sexual feelings to increase or mine to diminish...so we just pray. But in my past experience, prayer without action isn't as rewarding.


#4

I was also concerned about the side effects and hesitant to try it, but the doctor told me that very little, if any, of the cream gets absorbed into the bloodstream, especially when only used on the outside and in such tiny quantities (only about the size of a pea every other day at first, then twice a week, then some people can reduce it to even less often sometimes). I gave in and trusted his judgment when all else failed and I just couldn’t stand it any longer. Would never want to go back to way it used to be again, no matter what!

Also important to always have lots of cuddling, etc., prior to the final stage of the marital embrace (with KY or whatever as needed). Candles, soft romantic music, back rubs, massages, and a glass or two of wine beforehand can help, too - not only to relax but also to celebrate a return to the way life used to be!! Give it time, patience, and lots of hugs and loving, caring exchanges all day long - every day. A bit of humor thrown in through the day helps, too! These can actually turn out to be some of the best years of your married life together. And God will be helping you all along the way, so keep praying for his assistance and guidance. He won’t let you down.

God bless both of you and your long, beautiful marriage.


#5

[quote="shipwrkd, post:3, topic:286700"]
Thank you so much. We have Googled and talked with her doctor about Premarin but she is at risk for breast cancer (runs in her family) and heart disease so we're looking for a more natural solution. Her gynecologist also believes there may be some reflex tightening from the past pain. Have you found Premarin to help this as it may be the next step even with the side effects. Thanks for the prayers, at this stage we're not sure to pray for her sexual feelings to increase or mine to diminish...so we just pray. But in my past experience, prayer without action isn't as rewarding.

[/quote]

There are other brands of vaginal hormone creme besides Premarin. Vaginal estrogen creme does not increase cancer risk as would oral hormones. It does help a LOT, and also does not have to be used every day to have an effect. There are no side effects.


#6

[quote="shipwrkd, post:1, topic:286700"]
My wife and I have been married 41 years and she went through menopause a few years back. Since then, sex for her has been extremely painful. She's gone to several doctors and they prescribed self vaginal dilation and masturbation to stretch and lubricate. We've tried the "tab A and slot B" process but we just become more frustrated. I can no longer finish what we've started, knowing I'm causing her pain. The doctors say this is a treatable problem, but the treatment seems to be against Catholic teaching. They've also told her for her psychological and physical health, the longer she delays, the worse it will become. In other words, use it or loose it. We're both not ready to give up the beautiful unity and closeness we once had.
I have to believe other Catholic couples have struggled with this and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :confused:

[/quote]

According to the natural links between wife and husband ( the natural contract that is at the spring of interpersonnal obligations within couple and the natural institution that is at the spring of duties ), I think that:

1.Your wife has a natural contractual moral obligation toward her husband [you] and toward her couple, and has a natural contractual right toward her and her couple to take treatment - pills, exercices, psychological therapy with catholic doctor - in order to cure her painful sexual problems and thus the marital act of her couple, in link and in the respect of natural law;

  1. You have a natural contractual right toward you and toward your couple to note that your wife is trying to take a treatment - pills, exercices, psychological therapy with catholic doctor - in order to cure her painful sexual problems, in link and in the respect of natural law; you have a natural contractual right toward you and toward your couple to participate to this treatment - pills, exercices, psychological therapy with catholic doctor - in order to cure her painful sexual problems and thus the marital act of your couple, in link and in the respect of natural law.

If you (her and you) are ready to keep going " the beautiful unity and closeness " (marital act), you [the husband] has to agree with her [your wife] to finish what you have started, even in knowing that you are causing her pain.
That is your own marital deal with your wife for finding a solution. In general, treatment means efforts, sacrifices and painful situations during time of treatment. She need to work on her psychological approach concerning her sexual pain (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for her during the treatment?). You need to work on your psychological approach concerning the sexual pain of your wife (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for you during the treatment?);

During treatment " copula dimitatia " is totally okay. In the context of marital act during time of this treatment, you [her husband] have the right to stimulate your wife in the human fashion (very long foreplay are okay);

What is your acception of the notion of masturbation between wife and husband in the context of marital act during a medical treatment for solving sexual pain?


#7

[quote="fpt, post:6, topic:286700"]
If you (her and you) are ready to keep going " the beautiful unity and closeness " (marital act), you [the husband] has to agree with her [your wife] to finish what you have started, even in knowing that you are causing her pain. ?

[/quote]

I don't believe I'm obligated, nor will I, "finish what I have started" knowing that I'm causing my wife pain and possible greater problems. I don't know of any part of TOB that forces me to "finish" and I'm sure a day will come when I'm unable to even if the Church demands it.

During treatment " copula dimitatia " is totally okay. In the context of marital act during time of this treatment, you [her husband] have the right to stimulate your wife in the human fashion (very long foreplay are okay);

Sorry, I can't find the meaning of "copula dimitatia" so I'm not sure on this.

What is your acception of the notion of masturbation between wife and husband in the context of marital act during a medical treatment for solving sexual pain?

I also do not understand what you are asking here, must loose something in translation.
I think the Marriage Act should be mutually loving and bonding rather then contractual. This said, we think we'll go with the advise of TheRealJuliane and bmaj. Thank you for responding.


#8

I will add my endorsement about Premarin, based on personal experience! (My husband and I have been married 33 years on June 16, and we're both 55 years old.)

I don't think I should write more on this post--it would come across like one of those romance novels! But definitely try it. What everyone is saying about the side effects is what I was told.


#9

Have you tried Replens? It is supposed to help the tissue actually repair itself, like hand lotion would soften your hands. My OB office recommends it to postpartum women since childbirth can throw your hormones into a menopause-like state.


#10

[quote="NSFrame, post:9, topic:286700"]
Have you tried Replens? It is supposed to help the tissue actually repair itself, like hand lotion would soften your hands. My OB office recommends it to postpartum women since childbirth can throw your hormones into a menopause-like state.

[/quote]

Yup, she has and said it didn't do enough good to keep going with it

Originally Poster by Cat
.I will add my endorsement about Premarin, based on personal experience! (My husband and I have been married 33 years on June 16, and we're both 55 years old.)
I don't think I should write more on this post--it would come across like one of those romance novels! But definitely try it. What everyone is saying about the side effects is what I was told.

Thanks for the endorsement, now I'm getting excited. Definitely will try it.


#11

I went through menopause at 48. I am now 65. It's a long process from perimenopausal to postmenopausal. The vagina gets thin and will only will get thinner with time. My husband and I have tried many things. I tried HRT therapy but did not like the cancer cautions, plus it gave me cramps so I quit. I decreased the dose and that helped but cancer is still a concern and I wanted something that was natural.

Tell your wife to eat lots of cherries, they will be in season shortly. I found them to be a good pain controller and they are natural. I just noticed it on my own but if you research cherries you will find them to be good natural pain controller. When the season is over for them you can find them in other things but the summer is the best time for cherries.

You are a very good husband not to think of sex as a contract. The more you can get away from that the better you are. I know your wife is more frustrated than you from experience. Pain can be a big turn off for any activity, including sex. My hubby and I just take it more slowly and take more time and he is careful to ask me if it hurts. He is like you and does not want to hurt his wife. I will sometimes rush through it just to get the pain over with and just to let him get to sleep, since he works. I know that is not good for me but I do it for him and sometimes I do not have as much pain as I thought I would. The body is strange that way.

Maybe a Catholic doctor can advise us more on what we can do or what we can use (maybe a barrier of some type to protect the walls of the vagina) that would agree with church teaching. The priest did tell my hubby that anything sexual between a husband and wife is allowed if they both agree to it, so don't worry about that. As long as the act ends up in intercourse it's all ok. That is a big help and takes away much anxiety.


#12

[quote="oneofmany, post:11, topic:286700"]
Tell your wife to eat lots of cherries, they will be in season shortly. I found them to be a good pain controller and they are natural. I just noticed it on my own but if you research cherries you will find them to be good natural pain controller. When the season is over for them you can find them in other things but the summer is the best time for cherries.

[/quote]

Cherries...why did it have ti be cherries, why couldn't it have been grapes or even raisins. The only way she'll eat cherries is if they are dipped in chocolate. Same with raspberries. Just curious if you've tried the Premarin and,if so, what the results were.

On a side note, something I said in reply to a post from ftp has had me wondering.

I don't believe I'm obligated, nor will I, "finish what I have started" knowing that I'm causing my wife pain and possible greater problems. I don't know of any part of TOB that forces me to "finish" and I'm sure a day will come when I'm unable to even if the Church demands it.

If the day comes that I'm able to stay erect but not "finish what I have started", does the Church even allow me to start?? Or should this be a separate post?


#13

[quote="shipwrkd, post:7, topic:286700"]
I don't believe I'm obligated, nor will I, "finish what I have started" knowing that I'm causing my wife pain and possible greater problems. I don't know of any part of TOB that forces me to "finish" and I'm sure a day will come when I'm unable to even if the Church demands it.

Sorry, I can't find the meaning of "copula dimitatia" so I'm not sure on this.

I also do not understand what you are asking here, must loose something in translation.
I think the Marriage Act should be mutually loving and bonding rather then contractual. This said, we think we'll go with the advise of TheRealJuliane and bmaj. Thank you for responding.

[/quote]

Sorry if my last message was not quite clear. That, It is better to forget it. Now, I am going to try to be more expressive about my thoughts on this topic.

I. Before all thing, for answering to your questions, it is necessary to define in these two special contexts (1. the marital act between wife and husband -- before during and after the union of bodies --; 2. the medical and psychological treatment of sexual pain) some concepts.

a. Morally speaking in the catholic meaning, in the marriage and in general, between wife and husband, how do you know if an act of intimacy without marital act is moral or immoral? What are the types of acts that are morally okay (per se or in function of circuntances because neutral by definition) or objectively immoral (per se, always sinful)?

b. Morally speaking in the catholic meaning, in the marriage and in general, between wife and husband, how do you know if an act of intimacy that leads the marital act is moral or immoral? What are the types of acts that are morally okay (per se or in function of circuntances because neutral by definition) or objectively immoral (per se, always sinful)?

c. In fact the only question is: what is the acception of the notion of masturbation between wife and husband in the context of marital act? How do you define the masturbation during the marital act? What is morally okay or what is not morally okay??? What are the acts that are objectively immoral in the context of marital act? Do you know the black list of bad acts???

II. By definition, treatment can mean pains, efforts, sacrifices, bad times in order to solve the deep pain. Thus you and your wife if you want to cure, you need to be okay with a moderate pain: In theory, she needs to work on her psychological approach concerning her sexual pain (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for her during the treatment?). In theory, you need to work on your psychological approach concerning the sexual pain of your wife (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for you during the treatment?).

In practice, you [her husband] have the right to stimulate your wife in the human fashion (very long foreplay are okay) for preparing her before the union of bodies: that is not masturbation.
In practice if the pain is so horrible for her if you can not to finish what you have started, because sexual pain is too important, it is not a sin for you and for her to stop; and if you are scrupulous you can practice the " copula dimidiata ".

"The vaginal dilation and the " masturbation" to stretch and lubricate" done by you during foreplay is moral or immoral? That is the question? Can you adapt the treatment in the catholic way?

If you want more, I can send to you a private message with many explanations.


#14

In the marriage, in order to cure the sexual pain of your wife, and thus to practice the sexual marital act between you and her:

What are the medical treatments, the psychological treatments, the moral treatments, the mental treatments, the physiological treatments, the sexed treatments, the sexual treatments that are compatible with the catholic teaching on the sexual conjugal morality ?????

For giving an answer, you should avoid:

The sexo-conjugal fideism, the sexo-conjugal puritanism, the sexo-conjugal neopuritanism, the sexo-conjugal victorianism, the sexo-conjugal neovictorianism, the sexo-conjugal jansenism, the sexo-conjugal theoretical providentialism, the sexo-masculism, the sexo-genderism and the sexo-feminism, the sexo-moralism, the sexo-primary anti personalism.


#15

[quote="fpt, post:14, topic:286700"]
In the marriage, in order to cure the sexual pain of your wife, and thus to practice the sexual marital act between you and her:

What are the medical treatments, the psychological treatments, the moral treatments, the mental treatments, the physiological treatments, the sexed treatments, the sexual treatments that are compatible with the catholic teaching on the sexual conjugal morality ?????

For giving an answer, you should avoid:

The sexo-conjugal fideism, the sexo-conjugal puritanism, the sexo-conjugal neopuritanism, the sexo-conjugal victorianism, the sexo-conjugal neovictorianism, the sexo-conjugal jansenism, the sexo-conjugal theoretical providentialism, the sexo-masculism, the sexo-genderism and the sexo-feminism, the sexo-moralism, the sexo-primary anti personalism.

[/quote]

Also the sexo-conjugal scrupulism, the sexo-conjugal rigorism


#16

[quote="oneofmany, post:11, topic:286700"]
I went through menopause at 48. I am now 65. It's a long process from perimenopausal to postmenopausal. The vagina gets thin and will only will get thinner with time. My husband and I have tried many things. I tried HRT therapy but did not like the cancer cautions, plus it gave me cramps so I quit. I decreased the dose and that helped but cancer is still a concern and I wanted something that was natural.

Tell your wife to eat lots of cherries, they will be in season shortly. I found them to be a good pain controller and they are natural. I just noticed it on my own but if you research cherries you will find them to be good natural pain controller. When the season is over for them you can find them in other things but the summer is the best time for cherries.

You are a very good husband not to think of sex as a contract. The more you can get away from that the better you are. I know your wife is more frustrated than you from experience. Pain can be a big turn off for any activity, including sex. My hubby and I just take it more slowly and take more time and he is careful to ask me if it hurts. He is like you and does not want to hurt his wife. I will sometimes rush through it just to get the pain over with and just to let him get to sleep, since he works. I know that is not good for me but I do it for him and sometimes I do not have as much pain as I thought I would. The body is strange that way.

Maybe a Catholic doctor can advise us more on what we can do or what we can use (maybe a barrier of some type to protect the walls of the vagina) that would agree with church teaching. The priest did tell my hubby that anything sexual between a husband and wife is allowed if they both agree to it, so don't worry about that. As long as the act ends up in intercourse it's all ok. That is a big help and takes away much anxiety.

[/quote]

You know that the fact of refusing the marital act [thus in an implicit manner to refuse to talk about sex drive, sexual pain, marital sex, without good reasons, is wrong and is probably immoral] without good reasons is wrong and is probably immoral. Marital act is, before all thing, a symbol of love, a language, a prayer, a liturgy, a communion, a sharing, but also a duty, a obligation, a right, a debt,. The fact of forgetting voluntary this teaching, is very against the catholic teaching and the natural law.

The fact of refusing a natural treatment, a honest treatment, a moderate treatment , thus a neutral treatment can be a wrong behavior and also a immoral act.

The great issue is the definition of good reasons?

In addition, in law, thus in moral there are the duties, the obligations, the rights and their corollaries. Very often, in the marriage, we forget the corollaries of these different rights, obligations and duties.


#17

[quote="fpt, post:13, topic:286700"]
Sorry if my last message was not quite clear. That, It is better to forget it. Now, I am going to try to be more expressive about my thoughts on this topic.

I. Before all thing, for answering to your questions, it is necessary to define in these two special contexts (1. the marital act between wife and husband -- before during and after the union of bodies --; 2. the medical and psychological treatment of sexual pain) some concepts.

a. Morally speaking in the catholic meaning, in the marriage and in general, between wife and husband, how do you know if an act of intimacy without marital act is moral or immoral? What are the types of acts that are morally okay (per se or in function of circuntances because neutral by definition) or objectively immoral (per se, always sinful)?

b. Morally speaking in the catholic meaning, in the marriage and in general, between wife and husband, how do you know if an act of intimacy that leads the marital act is moral or immoral? What are the types of acts that are morally okay (per se or in function of circuntances because neutral by definition) or objectively immoral (per se, always sinful)?

c. In fact the only question is: what is the acception of the notion of masturbation between wife and husband in the context of marital act? How do you define the masturbation during the marital act? What is morally okay or what is not morally okay??? What are the acts that are objectively immoral in the context of marital act? Do you know the black list of bad acts???

II. By definition, treatment can mean pains, efforts, sacrifices, bad times in order to solve the deep pain. Thus you and your wife if you want to cure, you need to be okay with a moderate pain: In theory, she needs to work on her psychological approach concerning her sexual pain (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for her during the treatment?). In theory, you need to work on your psychological approach concerning the sexual pain of your wife (what is her level of pain that is acceptable and tolerable for you during the treatment?).

In practice, you [her husband] have the right to stimulate your wife in the human fashion (very long foreplay are okay) for preparing her before the union of bodies: that is not masturbation.
In practice if the pain is so horrible for her if you can not to finish what you have started, because sexual pain is too important, it is not a sin for you and for her to stop; and if you are scrupulous you can practice the " copula dimidiata ".

"The vaginal dilation and the " masturbation" to stretch and lubricate" done by you during foreplay is moral or immoral? That is the question? Can you adapt the treatment in the catholic way?
In the marriage, in order to cure the sexual pain of your wife, and thus to practice the sexual marital act between you and her:

What are the medical treatments, the psychological treatments, the moral treatments, the mental treatments, the physiological treatments, the sexed treatments, the sexual treatments that are compatible with the catholic teaching on the sexual conjugal morality ?????

For giving an answer, you should avoid:

The sexo-conjugal fideism, the sexo-conjugal puritanism, the sexo-conjugal neopuritanism, the sexo-conjugal victorianism, the sexo-conjugal neovictorianism, the sexo-conjugal jansenism, the sexo-conjugal theoretical providentialism, the sexo-masculism, the sexo-genderism and the sexo-feminism, the sexo-moralism, the sexo-primary anti personalism.
If you want more, I can send to you a private message with many explanations.

[/quote]

Holy Cow! I'm just trying to extend our sex life. I'm almost 66 years old and I don't have enough time left to look up all the phrases you posted let alone understand what they mean.
I like the suggestion "Premarin", it' short and understandable and can be tried in my time frame. All of a sudden i got a craving for "cherries" also. My wife won't touch them ...but I love them.:wave:


#18

Do not solicit nor give medical advice.


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