Praise Music Used in The Catholic Church


#1

Being Baptized into the pre-Vatican II Church and saying the Latin Mass up unitl I was 7 or 8. Since then the music has gone from using Anglican Hmynals to what we are singing
now which is most Marty Haugen who is not even Catholic composing Mass music is
something I find rather strange. And to top it off we are now singing a great deal of Christian Praise music being brought into the church music programs that are based on what is on the Christian Music radio stations.


#2

Bach wasn’t Catholic, and people like him. Mozart was a mason (although people will jump through hoops to justify his masonry), and people like him too.

I don’t see anything wrong with modern hymns being used in Catholic churches. If you’re looking for people to rail against modern hymns and modern instruments being used though, you certainly picked the right section to post in.


#3

It is indeed strange, I would agree. I cannot wrap my head around why we would ever want to detract from the sanctity of the Mass by using such gems that come out of the Glory and Praise, or the Gather hymnals. Compared to music from the Missa Cantata, which I am sure you remember, the modern love-each-other up-beat music is just weak.

For me, and this is something that I struggle with concerning the NO Missae, I am sick of people being so jovial. Honestly, we just watched as our Lord was crucified and then we ate his flesh and drank his blood. The last thing that should be on anyone's mind is how great the music is to sing.


#4

[quote="Melchior, post:2, topic:307278"]
Bach wasn't Catholic, and people like him. Mozart was a mason (although people will jump through hoops to justify his masonry), and people like him too.

I don't see anything wrong with modern hymns being used in Catholic churches. If you're looking for people to rail against modern hymns and modern instruments being used though, you certainly picked the right section to post in.

[/quote]

For that matter, if memory serves, the traditional gem 'A Mighty Fortress is our God' was a product of none other than Martin Luther!


#5

You have a Right as a baptized catholic to have access to The Mass in the form described in the Missal as it's primary form.

This is Plain Chant all the way, from the entrance (and other) antiphons or the Gradual, right through to the final blessing, dismissal and Recessional taken from an Antiphon, the Gradual, or final anthem to Our Lady.

Every city or large town should have mass available in this form. The use of other forms of music are optional extras, and as outreaches to various cultural groups. they should lead and encourage the Faithful to at be aware of and least experience the traditional Plain Chant settings.

Ask your Parish Priest where the Traditional Sung mass is available in your area, and it it is not easily available ask for it to be made available.
If you are not immediately successful, then ask other nearby priest, and work up via the local Cannon or Dean and up to the Bishop.

Don't reject the "popular" forms of music or condemn them (but similarly don't defend them where you can see theological faults)... just do your research into the guidance from the Vatican and ask for your rights as a catholic.

The greatest chance is that the mass is said like this in Latin, but you may be able to find it in the vernacular.
You have this right. your Bishop must make a priest available to you and the others in your area who share this desire. - (provided you can get a few of you together).

Personally I come from a charismatic background and love many forms of religious music both in the Liturgy and in other forms of prayer. - but these other forms of prayer and other forms of music must not be permitted to drive out the ancient Traditions of the Church which are clearly stated to be the "Gold Standard" and available to all the faithful.


#6

[quote="KLJM12, post:3, topic:307278"]
It is indeed strange, I would agree. I cannot wrap my head around why we would ever want to detract from the sanctity of the Mass by using such gems that come out of the Glory and Praise, or the Gather hymnals. Compared to music from the Missa Cantata, which I am sure you remember, the modern love-each-other up-beat music is just weak.

For me, and this is something that I struggle with concerning the NO Missae, I am sick of people being so jovial. Honestly, we just watched as our Lord was crucified and then we ate his flesh and drank his blood. The last thing that should be on anyone's mind is how great the music is to sing.

[/quote]

There is a difference between joviality and joy. Why should we not be joyful to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion and become One with our Christian brothers and sisters? Yes, the Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we are also living in the reality of His glorious resurrection from the dead. He has conquered our enemy death, and given to human beings the hope of heaven! Make a JOYFUL NOISE unto the Lord!

As for modern liturgical music--it's used because to many people with modern ears (like me), it is reverent, worshipful, and beautiful, and helps us to concentrate more fully on the Lord Jesus.

I hope that all who do not find modern liturgical music reverent and worshipful will be able to find and joyously attend a more traditional Mass, just as many of us who do not find ancient music worshipful or beautiful are able to joyously attend a more modern Mass.

Holy Mother Church is truly wise to allow for so many different musical styles in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!


#7

[quote="celticpearl, post:1, topic:307278"]
Being Baptized into the pre-Vatican II Church and saying the Latin Mass up unitl I was 7 or 8. Since then the music has gone from using Anglican Hmynals to what we are singing
now which is most Marty Haugen who is not even Catholic composing Mass music is
something I find rather strange. And to top it off we are now singing a great deal of Christian Praise music being brought into the church music programs that are based on what is on the Christian Music radio stations.

[/quote]

For what it's worth, Marty Haugen's music is not used in evangelical Protestant worship services and is not part of the body of "Praise and Worship music" used in the worship services.

I was evangelical Protestant for 47 years before converting to Catholicism. Most of my relatives and friends are evangelical Protestant. I had never heard of Marty Haugen or any of his songs before coming to a Catholic church.

Because of the theology in the Marty Haugen music, I don't think that any evangelical Protestant churches would ever use any of his songs--they would be considered "Catholic."


#8

Why don't you lobby for better music selections. If you could get a group of people from the parish (the more the better) with you, be respectful to the priests and the people who set up the music.Then in the most respectful way possible, state your concerns.
:)


#9

[quote="Cat, post:6, topic:307278"]
There is a difference between joviality and joy. Why should we not be joyful to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion and become One with our Christian brothers and sisters? Yes, the Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we are also living in the reality of His glorious resurrection from the dead. He has conquered our enemy death, and given to human beings the hope of heaven! Make a JOYFUL NOISE unto the Lord!

As for modern liturgical music--it's used because to many people with modern ears (like me), it is reverent, worshipful, and beautiful, and helps us to concentrate more fully on the Lord Jesus.

I hope that all who do not find modern liturgical music reverent and worshipful will be able to find and joyously attend a more traditional Mass, just as many of us who do not find ancient music worshipful or beautiful are able to joyously attend a more modern Mass.

Holy Mother Church is truly wise to allow for so many different musical styles in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

[/quote]

Indeed we ought be joyful as Catholics, in this I agree. Especially when receiving our Lord in the Blessed Eucharist. However, this is an inward joy.

It is the exact same moment in time when he was crucified 2000 years ago. It is his death. period. The exact moment when Our Lady was at the foot of the cross weeping for her Son. When our God was killed. And it is happening right before our eyes. Would you feel compelled, with the Blessed Virgin to your side, to express your joy outwardly at that moment in time? I very much hope not.

This is not to say that we ought disobey the rubric of the OF and be silent. The point that I was originally tried to make was that the Mass is not a time for lovey-dovey emotions amongst the faithful. The music ought set the tone for the Sacrifice. Drums, guitars, and modern vocals do not do justice to the action taking place.

The definition of reverent is " showing or feeling deep and solemn respect ". Modern music is not appropriate to fulfill this role. Ever. Why would anyone want secular-sounding music at the Mass? It is because people forget too often that a death is taking place.


#10

[quote="KLJM12, post:9, topic:307278"]
Indeed we ought be joyful as Catholics, in this I agree. Especially when receiving our Lord in the Blessed Eucharist. However, this is an inward joy.

[/quote]

And if your joy is truly of God, it cannot be contained. It is meant to be shared.


#11

[quote="clem456, post:10, topic:307278"]
And if your joy is truly of God, it cannot be contained. It is meant to be shared.

[/quote]

BUT not during the Mass. That is my only point.


#12

How are joy and reverence incompatible?


#13

[quote="KLJM12, post:11, topic:307278"]
BUT not during the Mass. That is my only point.

[/quote]

How can a sacrifice that was given for all of humanity not be a cause for joy? If we celebrate the Lord's sacrifice during the Mass, how can we not be joyful?


#14

[quote="clem456, post:12, topic:307278"]
How are joy and reverence incompatible?

[/quote]

How can this be so difficult? You are watching Christ have nails driven through his hands and his feet. He is dying in front of you. Then you are approaching the altar and eating a piece of His most holy Flesh. At that moment in time, if one considers what is actually going on, there is no cause for clapping, laughing, singing, or having a great time. I did not say one could not be joyful interiorly. Just that the circumstance is not one of outward expressions of joy.

I was only expressing in my previous comments that the liturgical music so often used, conveys a different messge than one of somber joy. Good grief no one ever said that we can't be joyful that Christ gave His life for us and allows us to eat His Flesh.


#15

The only music that is to be used in the liturgy, according to Sacred Tradition, is the gloriously sublime Sacred Music, gregorian chant, composed by the greatest musical minds Western civilization had ever produced.

What you are experiencing is one of the many bad fruits of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965).


#16

[quote="KLJM12, post:14, topic:307278"]
How can this be so difficult? You are watching Christ have nails driven through his hands and his feet. He is dying in front of you. Then you are approaching the altar and eating a piece of His most holy Flesh. At that moment in time, if one considers what is actually going on, there is no cause for clapping, laughing, singing, or having a great time. I did not say one could not be joyful interiorly. Just that the circumstance is not one of outward expressions of joy.

I was only expressing in my previous comments that the liturgical music so often used, conveys a different messge than one of somber joy. Good grief no one ever said that we can't be joyful that Christ gave His life for us and allows us to eat His Flesh.

[/quote]

At one and the same time, however, you know how the story ends, and it doesn't end with the sorrow of Calvary. It ends with the joy of Easter - the resurrection. It ends moreso with the JOYFUL hope (and those two words were actually part of the liturgy up until last year) of His coming again.

Remember Sundays are called mini Easters and not mini Good Fridays. Remember that the Mass is called the wedding feast of the Lamb, not His funeral meal. Above all remember it is called Eucharist - thanksgiving. Sorrow and gloomy long faces certainly are poor ways to give thanks IMHO.

We are indeed to be joyful and celebratory (though always in a way which is compatible with reverence).


#17

[quote="italian_man, post:15, topic:307278"]
The only music that is to be used in the liturgy, according to Sacred Tradition, is the gloriously sublime Sacred Music, gregorian chant, composed by the greatest musical minds Western civilization had ever produced.

What you are experiencing is one of the many bad fruits of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965).

[/quote]

Ita frater. Amen.


#18

No one is claiming that Sunday is not a mini-Easter either. Obviously we are to be joyful during Sunday. However, It is important to note that the Mass is more of a Sacrifice than a meal, and primarily so. When people start thinking of the Mass as primarily a supper, then irreverence is introduced. This is not opinion either (considering the catechetical crisis in our parishes all over the country and the lack of respect for the Blessed Sacrament that was unheard of 60 years ago).

Being somber, contrite, and reverent are the best ways to give thanks to the Lord our God during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Giving thanks does not always have to be a happy and fun time.

Celebrate after Mass. That is what is proper.


#19

For me, it doesn't get any better than the hymn "Immaculate Mary." I think you would find most people believe that to be a reverent, beautiful, hymn. However, it is only about 150 years old, which to us is old. However, I wonder what those in Church were thinking when it was sung around 1858 just after being written.

Heck, does it get any more beautiful than "Ave Maria?" Schubert's composition is only about 175 years old. He composed much of what we hear in Mass today and many have theorized that he was a deist or even atheist!

I think it would be interesting to hear what they are singing in 150-175 years and how they are singing it.


#20

[quote="KLJM12, post:14, topic:307278"]
How can this be so difficult? You are watching Christ have nails driven through his hands and his feet. He is dying in front of you. Then you are approaching the altar and eating a piece of His most holy Flesh. At that moment in time, if one considers what is actually going on, there is no cause for clapping, laughing, singing, or having a great time. I did not say one could not be joyful interiorly. Just that the circumstance is not one of outward expressions of joy.

I was only expressing in my previous comments that the liturgical music so often used, conveys a different messge than one of somber joy. Good grief no one ever said that we can't be joyful that Christ gave His life for us and allows us to eat His Flesh.

[/quote]

We are just all over the place here.
Who is talking about laughing and having a great time? Noone but you.

So if joy and reverence are not incompatible, which it seems that you are admitting, should not the music not reflect that? If you are truly joyful, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and it cannot be held for yourself interiorly. You can experience it interiorly, but it must be radiated. Music is a great vehicle for that. The Mass is not a funeral as a previous poster pointed out. I think you are confusing joy with a flippant happiness.

What we boil down to here is opinion and taste in music.


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