Pray for our POTUS and all world leaders


Where did you learn that list?

I cannot find it in the Catechism, in the Canon Law or in the USCCB guide.


The parent site of the Forums:

Search for 5 non-negotiables.

This list was a big thing several years ago.


That list is put together by a lay apostolate, it is opinion and not doctrine. It is a subset of the the moral imperatives.

If those 5 things were the only thing that mattered, we could vote for racists who support torture, slavery and genocide.

The document I linked and quoted above has the weight of the US Conference of Bishops and gives a far more encompassing “list”

The Catechism and other official documents of the Church help us know that there is far more to protecting the dignity of every human being from conception til natural death. Can’t wrap it up in a handy 5 bullet points.


Thank you for the update at

I’ll have to read it.

I fully accept the Church’s mission is to teach properly and thoroughly and it is ours to follow as best we can. Most Catholics will not read a few pages much less 40 plus pages, so a short version is often used. I was surprised to see the 5 nons seem to have faded from use.


It’s probably survivor’s benefits. Those actually do work that way - if you’re not legally married it doesn’t matter.


Thats a bit…much. We don’t support Trump in his moral blunders, we support his policies. Simple as that. I dare any of you to think about who you voted into office and what great “moral” characters they were. Did you vote for JFK or Bill Clinton? For some of you even older what about FDR? They weren’t repentent. They kept cheating and abusing women-at least until they got caught, maybe longer.


Lets talk to the Dems in Congress about creating a bill that allows fetuses onto medical plans so health issues would be covered when they are discovered in the womb. They would probably have to acknowledge they are human beings though…


That or there is a stipend for kids if parent is on SSDI. Those are the only two I can think of and they are not that much $$


The Catholic Church will never be irrelevant; and do realize that among the bad there are the good, whom you seem to disregard. Also realize that there were, are, and always will be hypocrites, liars, thieves, traitors, and all sorts of scoundrels among both the clergy and the laity; these are the wolves and the weeds that Scripture warned will always be among the flock. But the problem is that there will also always been the self-righteous who judge others by the specific sins from which they personally abstain.

I know plenty of people in the Church, members of the clergy, laity and religious alike who are not the people you are describing. I think the problem is that you are going around looking at everyone with a magnifying glass to point out their personal sins, when you should turn the magnifying glass on yourself to see what you find? We are all called to do that. I think you will discover that maybe you aren’t any better than most of the people you condemn. Thus the need to love the sinner and hate the sin.

I think it goes without saying that you would much rather live under a pagan emperor who did not persecute ͏y͏o͏u than one that did, despite their sinfulness. Would you rather live under Marxism with all your rights removed, or Capitalism, with all of its foibles? I think we know the answer.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”

The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”
To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”
To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”

To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”


Yeah its not “fraud” if the house/apartment is in her name and he lives there unbeknownst to the govt/landlord.


I didn’t vote for tanning bed addict :joy:


That is the very definition of “fraud”.


Nope, this is a deflection. Trump’s character is as bad as his ex-friends’, the Clintons. If you want to take a relativist approach and say we must overlook his lies, cheating, fraud, arrogance, and contempt for the rule of law, then we must do the same for HRC.

But in either case, trying to compare my sins to Trump’s is a false equivocation because, he, like HRC, doesn’t feel the need to repent. He doesn’t even need forgiveness, it’s beneath him.

That’s quite different from, say, President G. W. Bush, who while imperfect, still expressed his faith in an authority higher than himself.

Trump is lawless.


You are missing the point. You voted to support an evil person to in order to protect yourself from the threat of persecution from another evil person. That, in my opinion, is utilitarianism.

I voted in a way that would preserve the reputation of my faith, and to uphold my integrity.

Hitler outlawed abortion in his day. Had he guaranteed protection for the Church, it still would not have made the Church’s support of him any less terrible. Fortunately, the CC did not support him.

Better to be persecuted by evil than to be found in cahoots with it.


Yeah. And they have to work it out somehow, so people who have roommates with money don’t end up getting cut off of welfare. I’ve been in a situation where I was receiving welfare and staying with an opposite-sex roommate; we were not in any way romantically involved and we didn’t share expenses other than housing. So I still qualified for medicaid and food stamps.

I could definitely see how someone could have thought we were cheating benefits though.


Voting is violence. It’s a way of saying, “I know how you should spend your money better than you do, and I’ll use whatever means I have available to get my way with you.”

I don’t vote.


When did Ben Kenobi assume the role of God?


Welcome to the life of pretty much every young adult around a lot of places. Only it’s “I know what jobs you should take and what you should be paid and what transportation options you have to get there and what things cost better than you.”



What is the definition of Real American?


Again, Hillary Clinton supports killing babies, so I may love the sinner Hillary Clinton and pray for her conversion, but I certainly cannot support her politically. if Trump was campaigning for abortion, religious persecution and promising to normalize sodomy and transsexualism, and all the other cultural and social rot coming from the Left, then he would be as bad a sHillary Clinton.

I think the problem is that you are too proud.

I don’t think Trump is evil for being a sinner, just like I don’t think you are evil for being a sinner. What we cannot support is when politics is used to institutionalize and promote evil, such as what Hillary Clinton spearheads with abortion and all the moral rot being normalized by the left. I’m sure you’ve lied, cheated, been proud and arrogant, and committed all kinds of naughty things, right? though you are not championing them as good. So the danger of your position is that you run the risk of being a hypocrite.

If you admit that you have lied and committed shameful sins, how then can you judge Mr. Trump? You could be praying for his conversion instead of using your time to point out his personal sins. Maybe he too will come to repentance. the point is that one candidate is promoting and normalizing sin, whereas the other is just a sinner…

It’s easy to live in theory. I’m sure if the vandals were at the door, you woudn’t be musing in theory but screaming to God for help. the problem is that God only has sinners to work with…

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