Prayers of the Faithful


#1

The usual M.O for the “prayers of the faithful” in my diocese is that they are written by the “liturgy committee” or by the “pastoral associate” of the parish and that the priest/pastor (in most cases) does not “proof” them. The thought process is (I was on the diocesan liturgy panel, so I know what our regulations are) that the “PA’s” have been trained in liturgy, so they know what they are doing.

That said I have some concerns about the prayers of the faithful that were read in our Cathedral today. The first two petitions, while following the “formula” of praying for the Church and for world leaders, I am concerned about the wording.

The first was:
“For our Church leaders, that they may have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit leads them…”

The next was:
“For our government leaders, that they may be good shepherds and lead us all in pursuit of peace & justice…”

I don’t know this seems a little backward to me. Should we not be praying that our Church leaders are “good shepherds” and that our government leaders have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit is leading them? Is this just a matter of semantics? I plan on discussing this with the pastor (whom I know pretty well, and have a good relationship with), but I would like to know what others think about this. The few people I talked with after Mass seem to agree with me, but they are regular parishioners, and apparently things like this happen so often (along with other irregularities), that many of them are tired of fighting.
So, my CAF friends, what are your thoughts on this?


#2

I agree with you. It is backwards. Sometimes I wish our prayers of the faithful were just kept very simple, like "for an end to abortion" and "for an end to artificial contraception, and "for the dying". I think that would even set a good example to people by basically reminding them at Mass what the Church teaches.


#3

[quote="littlenothing, post:2, topic:323776"]
I agree with you. It is backwards. Sometimes I wish our prayers of the faithful were just kept very simple, like "for an end to abortion" and "for an end to artificial contraception, and "for the dying". I think that would even set a good example to people by basically reminding them at Mass what the Church teaches.

[/quote]

Agreed with this. Things like "the conversion of sinners" and things of that nature as well would be nice.


#4

You’d think something called the Universal Prayer would be universal. Is there a standard form we can use? While Googling, I noticed George Weigel suggests fixing them for weekday Masses and having the parish compose them for each Sunday.


#5

[quote="johnmann, post:4, topic:323776"]
You'd think something called the Universal Prayer would be universal. Is there a standard form we can use? While Googling, I noticed George Weigel suggests fixing them for weekday Masses and having the parish compose them for each Sunday.

[/quote]

There is a standard form according to the GIRM:

  1. The series of intentions is usually to be:

a) for the needs of the Church;

b) for public authorities and the salvation of the whole world;

c) for those burdened by any kind of difficulty;

d) for the local community.

Nevertheless, in any particular celebration, such as a Confirmation, a Marriage, or at a Funeral, the series of intentions may be concerned more closely with the particular occasion.


#6

[quote="SuscipeMeDomine, post:5, topic:323776"]
There is a standard form according to the GIRM:

  1. The series of intentions is usually to be:

a) for the needs of the Church;

b) for public authorities and the salvation of the whole world;

c) for those burdened by any kind of difficulty;

d) for the local community.

Nevertheless, in any particular celebration, such as a Confirmation, a Marriage, or at a Funeral, the series of intentions may be concerned more closely with the particular occasion.

[/quote]

I was hoping for something less generic. I thought maybe there's something most parishes use. It sounds like liturgical publishers sell their own versions.


#7

[quote="johnmann, post:6, topic:323776"]
I was hoping for something less generic. I thought maybe there's something most parishes use. It sounds like liturgical publishers sell their own versions.

[/quote]

Liturgical publishers sell subscriptions and parishes/dioceses write their own. It allows them to focus on the actual prayer needs at a given time.


#8

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:1, topic:323776"]
The usual M.O for the "prayers of the faithful" in my diocese is that they are written by the "liturgy committee" or by the "pastoral associate" of the parish and that the priest/pastor (in most cases) does not "proof" them. The thought process is (I was on the diocesan liturgy panel, so I know what our regulations are) that the "PA's" have been trained in liturgy, so they know what they are doing.

That said I have some concerns about the prayers of the faithful that were read in our Cathedral today. The first two petitions, while following the "formula" of praying for the Church and for world leaders, I am concerned about the wording.

The first was:
"For our Church leaders, that they may have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit leads them...."

The next was:
"For our government leaders, that they may be good shepherds and lead us all in pursuit of peace & justice..."

I don't know this seems a little backward to me. Should we not be praying that our Church leaders are "good shepherds" and that our government leaders have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit is leading them? Is this just a matter of semantics? I plan on discussing this with the pastor (whom I know pretty well, and have a good relationship with), but I would like to know what others think about this. The few people I talked with after Mass seem to agree with me, but they are regular parishioners, and apparently things like this happen so often (along with other irregularities), that many of them are tired of fighting.

So, my CAF friends, what are your thoughts on this?

[/quote]

I don't enjoy this part of the Mass. I do wish there was a standard prayer format because there have been many prayers I could not in good conscience support, at least at one parish. Some of them have been :eek: shocking. Now because that parish needs money, we pray "for generosity in the collection basket, Lord hear our prayer." :eek:

:(


#9

The Byzantine Rite (current form established by Doctor of the Church, St John Chrysostom) from time immemorial has used this order:

For our Archbishop (Name), our Bishop (Name), the honorable presbyters, the deacons in the service of Christ, and all the clergy and laity, let us pray to the Lord.

For our country, the president, and all those in public service, let us pray to the Lord.


#10

You're always going to have problems when people are allowed to make stuff up. Frankly I am very skeptical of these things because I think lived reality shows they often don't work well, but no one asked me.


#11

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:10, topic:323776"]
You're always going to have problems when people are allowed to make stuff up. Frankly I am very skeptical of these things because I think lived reality shows they often don't work well, but no one asked me.

[/quote]

Very true.


#12

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:1, topic:323776"]
The usual M.O for the "prayers of the faithful" in my diocese is that they are written by the "liturgy committee" or by the "pastoral associate" of the parish and that the priest/pastor (in most cases) does not "proof" them. The thought process is (I was on the diocesan liturgy panel, so I know what our regulations are) that the "PA's" have been trained in liturgy, so they know what they are doing.

That said I have some concerns about the prayers of the faithful that were read in our Cathedral today. **The first two petitions, while following the "formula" of praying for the Church and for world leaders, I am concerned about the wording.

The first was:
"For our Church leaders, that they may have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit leads them...."**

The next was:
"For our government leaders, that they may be good shepherds and lead us all in pursuit of peace & justice..."

I don't know this seems a little backward to me. Should we not be praying that our Church leaders are "good shepherds" and that our government leaders have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit is leading them? Is this just a matter of semantics? I plan on discussing this with the pastor (whom I know pretty well, and have a good relationship with), but I would like to know what others think about this. The few people I talked with after Mass seem to agree with me, but they are regular parishioners, and apparently things like this happen so often (along with other irregularities), that many of them are tired of fighting.

So, my CAF friends, what are your thoughts on this?

[/quote]

After reading the above several times, it strikes me that it comes down to "you say to-MAY-toe, I say to-MAH-toe."


#13

[quote="felsguy, post:12, topic:323776"]
After reading the above several times, it strikes me that it comes down to "you say to-MAY-toe, I say to-MAH-toe."

[/quote]

But the thing is that this kind of "strength of the Holy Spirit to go where He guides him" language has been hijacked in recent Church history and has turned into politically charged shibboleth advocating for things like "gay marriage" tending to be found in things like NCReporter articles. The close listener might be put off that this kind of language, which while not bad in itself has still been hijacked and ruined, is used in a cathedral Mass.


#14

We should just use the ones in the back of the missal, and this would be no problem. Even the old Missal has them back there, so if you really wanted to, you could put the old sacramentary and use it at the ambo. Or you could use something like this:

lulu.com/shop/the-roman-missal/the-universal-prayer-the-prayer-of-the-faithful/paperback/product-18885558.html;jsessionid=A0FC806DD3781274B95D4E909F28F976


#15

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:1, topic:323776"]
I am concerned about the wording.

The first was:
"For our Church leaders, that they may have the strength & courage to go where the Holy Spirit leads them...."

The next was:
"For our government leaders, that they may be good shepherds and lead us all in pursuit of peace & justice..."

[/quote]

I understand your preference, and the alternative prayers you proposed would be good ones, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with this wording either.


#16

Do you think it's possible that the reader (or pastor, whoever read the prayers) simply messed up reading the prayer?

Happens all the time at our parish. We end up praying for some very strange things sometimes, due to the reader getting confused. It's hard to read out loud in front of a big crowd of people!

Another possibility is that whoever typed up the prayer messed up and got it mixed up.

I would say that unless this kind of thing happens all the time in your parish, just forget about it for this week.


#17

[quote="aspirant, post:15, topic:323776"]
I understand your preference, and the alternative prayers you proposed would be good ones, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with this wording either.

[/quote]

There isn't anything intrinsically wrong, but by insinuation and association, this kind of phraseology has been tainted, so it can be said to be indirectly wrong.


#18

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:17, topic:323776"]
There isn't anything intrinsically wrong, but by insinuation and association, this kind of phraseology has been tainted, so it can be said to be indirectly wrong.

[/quote]

Meh. This strikes me as overreaching, like folks just looking for anything they might point a finger at and say "it's wrong!" I understand that may not be your intention, of course; you probably do have real concern, even if it's not very well grounded. (As even you admit, there is nothing wrong with the prayer itself.) That's just how it appears. :shrug:


#19

I want to thank you all for your input.

YTC, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with this statment, as it relates to my diocese. I thought the NC Reporter was the **only **"national" Catholic newspaper, until I found CAF and the National Catholic Register. :eek:

[quote="YoungTradCath, post:13, topic:323776"]
But the thing is that this kind of "strength of the Holy Spirit to go where He guides him" language has been hijacked in recent Church history and has turned into politically charged shibboleth advocating for things like "gay marriage" tending to be found in things like NCReporter articles. The close listener might be put off that this kind of language, which while not bad in itself has still been hijacked and ruined, is used in a cathedral Mass.

[/quote]

I have decided that I am going to let this go. My diocese is "sede vacante" right now, and I am beginning to believe that God is using some of these things that are "annoying" me about the state of my diocese as part of His plan to help me practice the virtue of patience. ;)

Again, thank you all & peace be with you. :)


#20

[quote="Oneofthewomen, post:19, topic:323776"]
I want to thank you all for your input.

YTC, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with this statment, as it relates to my diocese. I thought the NC Reporter was the **only **"national" Catholic newspaper, until I found CAF and the National Catholic Register. :eek:

I have decided that I am going to let this go. My diocese is "sede vacante" right now, and I am beginning to believe that God is using some of these things that are "annoying" me about the state of my diocese as part of His plan to help me practice the virtue of patience. ;)

Again, thank you all & peace be with you. :)

[/quote]

Yes, words have meanings, even meanings you don't mean for them to mean!


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