Praying for the dead

There probably have been topics on this before, but I need help in explaining to a baptist friend why catholics pray for the departed.
We were discussing the man who led the westboro baptist church and who passed away recently. I said we need to pray for his soul and she answered prayers won"t do him any good now. Is there scripture I could point to or something to explain why catholics believe in praying for the dead.

Praying for his soul WON’T help him escape hell. The judgment of his final destiny has already been made. Praying for his soul WILL help shorten his time in purgatory, should that be where he is. There is plenty to be said about the doctrine of purgatory and I will leave that to next poster.

2 Maccabees 12: 43 - 46:

43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

44 For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,

45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Michael Combie on Purgatory

youtube.com/watch?v=dwsBQffhbXY&list=PLakQ0O_yyZTCDSSW1GBIRvVD5zo1LxdV0&index=22

Agree.

Thank you McCartney for the scripture.
I thought there was something in Maccabees but I didn’t know where to find it. I just don’t know if she would read it. I tried to get her to read Tobit once. I told her she could find a catholic translation online.
She believes firmly in the KJV.

kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Maccabees-12-43_12-46/

I didn’t realize there were any KJV with what is called the Apocrapha for anglicans and episcopalians. I will ask if she is willing to look up 2Maccabees 12:43-46. Thanks.

Why don’t you just email her the link I gave you?:slight_smile:

Listen to the video I posted. It has many bible quotes.

Tell her that the 1611 version of KJV had the 7 books in them. They were taken out about 1850.

www.munseys.com/diskone/7purg.htm

You could get your friend to read the website at the link above…its very informative on purgatory, what it is, etc

Also theres two purgatory links in my signature too

This is a good Question - In the Baha’i Faith that is a Big Yes, Pray for them as they pray for you. There are lots of writings on this topic, this is an interesting look at the subject by Abdul’Baha

A friend asked: “How should one look forward to death?”

‘Abdu’l-Bahá answered: “How does one look forward to the goal of any journey? With hope and with expectation. It is even so with the end of this earthly journey. In the next world, man will find himself freed from many of the disabilities under which he now suffers. Those who have passed on through death, have a sphere of their own. It is not removed from ours; their work, the work of the Kingdom, is ours; but it is sanctified from what we call ‘time and place.’ Time with us is measured by the sun. When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man. Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation.
“In prayer there is a mingling of station, a mingling of condition. Pray for them as they pray for you! When you do not know it, and are in a receptive attitude, they are able to make suggestions to you, if you are in difficulty. This sometimes happens in sleep. but there is no phenomenal intercourse! That which seems like phenomenal intercourse has another explanation.” The questioner exclaimed; “But I have heard a voice!” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: “Yes, that is possible; we hear voices clearly in dreams. It is not with the physical ear that you heard; the spirit of those that have passed on are freed from sense-life, and do not use physical means. It is not possible to put these great matters into human words; the language of man is the language of children, and man’s explanation often leads astray.”
Someone present asked how it was that in prayer and meditation the heart often turns with instinctive appeal to some friend who has passed into the next life.
‘Abdu’l-Bahá answered: “It is a law of God’s creation that the weak should lean upon the strong. Those to whom you turn may be the mediators of God’s power to you, even as when on earth. But it is the One Holy Spirit that strengthens all men.” Hereupon another friend referred to the communing of Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration with Moses and Elijah; and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: “The faithful are ever sustained by the presence of the Supreme Concourse. In the Supreme Concourse are Jesus, and Moses, and Elijah, and Bahá’u’lláh, and other supreme Souls: there, also, are the martyrs.”

link to above talk & More - reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/ABL/abl-52.html

I pray every day for Souls that have passed on.

God Bless and regards Tony

I did not know that. Thanks.

Here is the reference that the KJV 1611 had the 7 books.

kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Books/1611-KJV-Original-Book-Names.php

That should be no problem. Second Maccabees is a part of the original KJV.

Actually I was very distraught when my second step-dad died. The Baptist hospital chaplain refused to pray for his soul. The man told me there is no reason to pray for the dead. He said that at the moment of death the soul instantly goes to heaven if it “got saved” and to hell if it had not.

Everything seems so easy for Baptists.

My Baptist friend told me that there is no need to say Our Fathers and Hail Marys. All you had to do was ask for forgiveness.

Thanks for that link. I did not realize the original KJV had the deutercannonical books. I will point that out to her. I didn’t realize they had been removed as late as the mid 1800’s.

Was it meant to be easy though? :shrug:

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