Praying/speaking


#1

How do we manage the conflict of what we pray for and God’s will. I dont mean in a material sense. A good example is Peter’s concern ( It could have been a prayer) for Jesus’s life on earth. Peter was of course rebuked, but surely if I was there, I would have prayed for His life on earth.Would this make me guilty of doing Satan’s work? Is there a difference between a prayer to God and the spoken word to another person. By this I mean, if Peter had prayed about this and not mentioned it ( no spoken word and therefore not tempted Jesus) would this be different? In a real sense, how do I pray about such things as the slaughter in southern Thailand, the conflicts in many parts of the world, Iraq, Russia ( especially the children) knowing that tribulation is but a breath away. What is the difference between my praying about these issues and speaking about them to other people and voicing an opinion other then in prayer?
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


#2

[quote=edwinG]How do we manage the conflict of what we pray for and God’s will. I dont mean in a material sense. A good example is Peter’s concern ( It could have been a prayer) for Jesus’s life on earth. Peter was of course rebuked, but surely if I was there, I would have prayed for His life on earth.Would this make me guilty of doing Satan’s work? Is there a difference between a prayer to God and the spoken word to another person. By this I mean, if Peter had prayed about this and not mentioned it ( no spoken word and therefore not tempted Jesus) would this be different?

[/quote]

Dear Edwin,

That brings up a point I’ve never thought of. Jesus called Peter satan, but then later in His own prayer asked the Father to remove the cup from Him. Somehow it was OK for Jesus to ask that his own life be spared, but not OK for Peter to say what he said.

Maybe it was that Peter “rebuked” the Lord instead of asking? What if instead of saying, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you,” Peter had used the word “willing” instead of “forbid,” thereby not presuming to tell God what to do?

I’m inclined to think it was in the way he worded it, as I consider everything we utter, privately or openly, is prayer. For that matter, everything we think and do is a prayer. Some prayers are evidently more pleasing to God than others.

Alan


#3

Jesus left us a good example of how we might pray when he himself prayed in Luke 22:42, saying, “Father, if thou art willing, …; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”


#4

[quote=Todd Easton]Jesus left us a good example of how we might pray when he himself prayed in Luke 22:42, saying, “Father, if thou art willing, …; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”

[/quote]

How true the hardest words to say when in desperation you pray for something you are in need of and letting go and saying not my will but Yours be done.


#5

[quote=AlanFromWichita]Dear Edwin,

That brings up a point I’ve never thought of. Jesus called Peter satan, but then later in His own prayer asked the Father to remove the cup from Him. Somehow it was OK for Jesus to ask that his own life be spared, but not OK for Peter to say what he said.

Maybe it was that Peter “rebuked” the Lord instead of asking? What if instead of saying, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you,” Peter had used the word “willing” instead of “forbid,” thereby not presuming to tell God what to do?

I’m inclined to think it was in the way he worded it, as I consider everything we utter, privately or openly, is prayer. For that matter, everything we think and do is a prayer. Some prayers are evidently more pleasing to God than others.

Alan
[/quote]

Hi Alan and Edwin,

Jumping in on this thread, I wouldn’t read too much into the Lord’s rebuke of Peter. I think you’re on the right track, Alan. “Satan” is simply the Hebrew word for adversary (nowadays, the chief adversary has been given the title of Satan). I think the Lord is using the word more in this sense, than in equating Peter with the Evil One. The way I’ve always understood it is that Christ is basically saying “stop being so difficult, Peter”. Remember, Peter may be the Rock, but honestly, he wasn’t the brightest bulb in the box.

I like your proposition that it was in the way Peter worded his statement (God forbid as opposed to God willing) that led to his rebuke. I had never thought of it that way, but it makes perfect sense to me :thumbsup:


#6

[quote=AlanFromWichita]Dear Edwin,

That brings up a point I’ve never thought of. Jesus called Peter satan, but then later in His own prayer asked the Father to remove the cup from Him. Somehow it was OK for Jesus to ask that his own life be spared, but not OK for Peter to say what he said.

Maybe it was that Peter “rebuked” the Lord instead of asking? What if instead of saying, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you,” Peter had used the word “willing” instead of “forbid,” thereby not presuming to tell God what to do?

I’m inclined to think it was in the way he worded it, as I consider everything we utter, privately or openly, is prayer. For that matter, everything we think and do is a prayer. Some prayers are evidently more pleasing to God than others.

Alan
[/quote]

Hi Alan,

Yes I agree that the manner in which Peter spoke was in the manner of the flesh, thinking of his own needs, to be with Jesus, and not thinking of spiritual requirements. And these words are used as a temptation for Jesus. Jesus saw them as a temptation by satan. If you were facing a death caused by pain, and someone offered you a way out, you would certain consider it. And yes I think if he had used the word “willing” instead of “forbid’ he may not have been rebuked.
But there are nuances here not covered.
We know the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with groanings because we dont even know what to pray for, and probably this is the case if it had been a prayer. I agree that our thoughts and meditations are always prayerful, but in meditation and thinking maybe their is a difference in our heart, like an acceptable embryo of thought that is not crystalised as it is in prayer.
Your words " some prayers are evidently more pleasing to God than others” is a thread all on its own, but I am not sure it applies specificially here, althought generally it certainly does.
There is the power of the Word that has to be considered. As we are not very spiritual, our spirit has very limited power but I think it is the word that activates the spirit.( We are in His image; Will Word &Spirit.) And it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which is not forgiven, not thoughts.
More info please Alan.
Oops did you receive my message regarding my long night.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG


#7

[quote=Todd Easton]Jesus left us a good example of how we might pray when he himself prayed in Luke 22:42, saying, “Father, if thou art willing, …; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”

[/quote]

Hi Todd,
Yes Jesus is certainly the Teacher. But what should we be doing. If we talk about events. God said we would have to account for every idle word spoken. How do we phrase our speaking? In Alan’s post he suggested that if Peter had used the word “willing” instead of " forbid" it may have been acceptable to Jesus. If one word makes a difference, just how carefull should we be.Where are we against God’s will. This is not easy. If we were present with Peter would we speak or pray for Jesus’s life. Do we pray for the USA in Afganistan but not in Iraq or do we pray in reverse. Obviously we dont know so that is why the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, Now what about our every day speaking about these events. How should we be phrasing our words? Should we care what we say?
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG


#8

A good example is Peter’s concern ( It could have been a prayer) for Jesus’s life on earth. Peter was of course rebuked, but surely if I was there, I would have prayed for His life on earth.Would this make me guilty of doing Satan’s work?

i really don’t think jesus was calling peter satan. peter was speaking honestly the way he felt but jesus recognised that this honest statement (full of love) was being used by satan to tempt jesus. it was reminding him of the love of the apostles he had on earth and the great things he could do on earth. thus, to satan (and not to peter) he says- stop distracting and tempting me!! it doesn’t make peter guilty of satan’s work; rather, satan used what is good and twisted it to evil (like he used scripture verses to tempt jesus)

[font=Arial] Is there a difference between a prayer to God and the spoken word to another person.

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is there supposed to be? yes, in one sense we should remember who we are communicating with. on the other hand, prayer is speaking to god about anything and everything, not just a formal requesting for things. in that sense, whatever we take in prayer to god, we can and should tell him how we feel about it (which side we support and what we think is best) but we should also say “thy will be done; and if my thinking is wrong, correct me lord”

taken in that sense, if we consider speaking to people about various political or other issues (like those mentioned in this thread), god is listening and we should speak honestly about the way we feel. there is nothing wrong in voicing our opinion even if it later turns out to be not in line with god’s plan; god will not call us “satan” because our opinion does not match his plans (plans we can’t see and can’t be expected to see)

i hope this helped
justin


#9

[quote=justinmatter]i really don’t think jesus was calling peter satan. peter was speaking honestly the way he felt but jesus recognised that this honest statement (full of love) was being used by satan to tempt jesus. it was reminding him of the love of the apostles he had on earth and the great things he could do on earth. thus, to satan (and not to peter) he says- stop distracting and tempting me!! it doesn’t make peter guilty of satan’s work; rather, satan used what is good and twisted it to evil (like he used scripture verses to tempt jesus)

is there supposed to be? yes, in one sense we should remember who we are communicating with. on the other hand, prayer is speaking to god about anything and everything, not just a formal requesting for things. in that sense, whatever we take in prayer to god, we can and should tell him how we feel about it (which side we support and what we think is best) but we should also say “thy will be done; and if my thinking is wrong, correct me lord”

taken in that sense, if we consider speaking to people about various political or other issues (like those mentioned in this thread), god is listening and we should speak honestly about the way we feel. there is nothing wrong in voicing our opinion even if it later turns out to be not in line with god’s plan; god will not call us “satan” because our opinion does not match his plans (plans we can’t see and can’t be expected to see)

i hope this helped
justin
[/quote]

Hi Justin ,
Thanks very much for joining this thead and for your well thought out comments
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG


#10

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