Praying to Dead People


#1

I am commonly told that praying to anyone other than God is putting them on the level of a Diety. I understand that protestants generally view “praying” as worship, which is part of the problem.

I don’t understand why they think Saints who have gone before us cannot hear our prayers? How can we be certain that they do?

I understand that we pray to saints as they are now righteous people and prayers from Righteous people availeth much, however Protestants in general view dead saints as being in Paradise and not concerned with earthly happenings given they no longer have pain, sorrow, etc.

Thanks.


#2

[quote=go Leafs go]I am commonly told that praying to anyone other than God is putting them on the level of a Diety. I understand that protestants generally view “praying” as worship, which is part of the problem.

I don’t understand why they think Saints who have gone before us cannot hear our prayers? How can we be certain that they do?

I understand that we pray to saints as they are now righteous people and prayers from Righteous people availeth much, however Protestants in general view dead saints as being in Paradise and not concerned with earthly happenings given they no longer have pain, sorrow, etc.

Thanks.
[/quote]

Saints who gone before us cannot hear our prayers because there ears are in the grave. :stuck_out_tongue:


#3

lol, I guess so, but seriously, anyone?


#4

[quote=go Leafs go]I am commonly told that praying to anyone other than God is putting them on the level of a Diety. I understand that protestants generally view “praying” as worship, which is part of the problem.

I don’t understand why they think Saints who have gone before us cannot hear our prayers? How can we be certain that they do?

I understand that we pray to saints as they are now righteous people and prayers from Righteous people availeth much, however Protestants in general view dead saints as being in Paradise and not concerned with earthly happenings given they no longer have pain, sorrow, etc.

Thanks.
[/quote]

I guess for me the question has always been one of what is real and what is perceived as real.

I think that very few, if any, Christians would have a problem asking other Christians to pray for them if they are in trouble or having difficulty. The question is, then, what is the nature of prayer? If it is simply physical words, then the idea of someone who is dead praying for us is ludicrous. If it is, as most Christian churches teach, spiritual communion with God, then the question is whether the spirits of those who have attained paradise remain interested in those on earth and will ask God to work in the lives of those who remain?

I think it likely, from what I know of myself, that once in heaven a soul would still retain interest in the worldly affairs of those left here. We are earthly by God’s design and naturally have some affinity and interest in what goes on here. I don’t think that goes away when we die.

So, if prayer is spiritual communion with God, why wouldn’t we ask the saints in heaven, who have, literally, an eternity to pray to God for us with no other cares to bind them, to pray for our needs to God?

So, we go to God in prayer for our needs but then we ask the saints on earth and the saints in heaven to also pray for our needs.

Does that make any sense?

in pacem Christi,
df


#5

As for being certain, that would be difficult. It’s a matter of faith based on our understanding, but you’d be hard pressed to ‘prove it’ in any sense that would satisfy a Protestant. But then again, you can’t prove God to an atheist in that sense either. You can give evidence and explain your reasons, but that’s it.

The thing that finally explained this for me was the understanding that all believers in Christ are part of the body of Christ. If a person was part of the body of Christ before death, why would we think they would cease to be so after death. Quite the contrary, being in heaven, they would still be part of the body, and in even greater union. Why would we think that those members of Christ’s body are not concerned with the other members still living. Are not the believer is Christ one body whether dead or living? And after all they aren’t really dead, are they? They are alive in Christ. God is the God of the living, not the God of the dead.


#6

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Saints who gone before us cannot hear our prayers because there ears are in the grave. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/quote]

I don’t know about you, Spokenword, but I’m want to get to heaven where I’m “alive in Christ” along with my other Christian breatheren. They prayers of a righteous man availeth much - I welcome the prayers of Jesus’ friends who are closest to Him! Atheists believe we rot in the ground, that’s not a Christian belief!! :stuck_out_tongue:


#7

I know of no one who prays to or through a dead person.

I know of many people who have living people (on Earth and in heaven) pray for them to God.

God is pure love, and those in Heaven are filled with love. Love includes caring about others (including those still on Earth.) God wants us all to love each other. He can let those in Heaven, hear our requests for prayer from them to God for us. " The prayers of the righteous avail much." and who are more righteous then those already with God.

God bless.


#8

[quote=dfhauer]I guess for me the question has always been one of what is real and what is perceived as real.

I think that very few, if any, Christians would have a problem asking other Christians to pray for them if they are in trouble or having difficulty. The question is, then, what is the nature of prayer? If it is simply physical words, then the idea of someone who is dead praying for us is ludicrous. If it is, as most Christian churches teach, spiritual communion with God, then the question is whether the spirits of those who have attained paradise remain interested in those on earth and will ask God to work in the lives of those who remain?

I think it likely, from what I know of myself, that once in heaven a soul would still retain interest in the worldly affairs of those left here. We are earthly by God’s design and naturally have some affinity and interest in what goes on here. I don’t think that goes away when we die.

So, if prayer is spiritual communion with God, why wouldn’t we ask the saints in heaven, who have, literally, an eternity to pray to God for us with no other cares to bind them, to pray for our needs to God?

So, we go to God in prayer for our needs but then we ask the saints on earth and the saints in heaven to also pray for our needs.

Does that make any sense?

in pacem Christi,
df
[/quote]

Just speculation,you really dont know. Only God knows. :confused:


#9

I pray to saints for their intercession, as even though they may be in heaven, they’re still working for our salvation. Their prayers never cease in helping us here on earth. In the canonization of a saint, certain miracles must be attributed to the saint. These include answered prayers for those suffering here on earth.

I think we need to pray for the souls in purgatory, as I also believe when they are freed from purgatory, they pray for us.

We are all brothers and sisters in Christ, whether passed on from this life to heaven or not. And all should be concerned with overall salavation: uniting all souls to Christ.


#10

We do know that the blessed in Heaven know when one of us repents (Luke 15:7). So God does fill the blessed in on some things. :thumbsup:


#11

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Just speculation,you really dont know. Only God knows. :confused:
[/quote]

Sounds very agnostic to me. From your point of view, the whole Christian religion is “just specualtion…[we] really don’t know.”

Personally, I don’t consider it speculation. I prefer to call it faith.


#12

Oh and not only that, I ask the Angels to bless the Lord with me constantly! Psalm 103 “Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will” :thumbsup:


#13

So, if the Blessed and Angels can hear me, it is not wrong to ask them to pray for me, as they are still part of the Body of Christ.
-Stylite


#14

[quote=Jennifer123]I don’t know about you, Spokenword, but I’m want to get to heaven where I’m “alive in Christ” along with my other Christian breatheren. They prayers of a righteous man availeth much - I welcome the prayers of Jesus’ friends who are closest to Him! Atheists believe we rot in the ground, that’s not a Christian belief!! :stuck_out_tongue:
[/quote]

Im christian and I know our bodies will rot in the ground. My soul and spirit will be with my Lord. I also know we will be given new bodies according to His Word. And Yes we will be ALIVE in Christ when we enter into His kingdom. :thumbsup:


#15

According to Catholic belief, “death” is the doorway to everlasting life. Protestants claim to believe this, also.

“He is not the God of the dead but of the living” Mt 22:32b.

“And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” Rev 8:3-4.

As members of the Church founded by Christ, we are the Family of God. “Death” does not separate us. Catholics have been “praying to” the saints since the days of the Apostles. Carved on the wall near Peter’s tomb is the inscription: “Peter pray for the pious Christian men buried near your body” (The Tomb of St. Peter, by Margherita Guarducci, George G. Harrup & Co., 1959, p.146.)

Recommended reading: Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine" by Patrick Madrid.

You can also search under “Communion of Saints” online.

JMJ Jay


#16

[quote=T.A.Stobie, SFO]I know of no one who prays to or through a dead person.
I know of many people who have living people (on Earth and in heaven) pray for them to God.
God is pure love, and those in Heaven are filled with love. Love includes caring about others (including those still on Earth.) God wants us all to love each other. He can let those in Heaven, hear our requests for prayer from them to God for us.
[/quote]

Well stated, Thomas!

I think about it like this…

When we first learn of the love of Jesus and all He has done in our lives, we want to shout it from the rooftops and tell everyone! We want everyone to know of His Great Love and Mercy and to share in it.

Over the past few years, after coming to a better understanding of Jesus Truly Present in the Holy Eucharist, I also want to share the beauty of this with everyone (though perhaps shouting it from the rooftops might not be the best method!) I want everyone to be able to receive Jesus in this Beautiful Sacrament!

So, when we are in heaven, truly in the Presence of Our Lord, with all the saints and angels, don’t you think we’ll want to do everything we can to help everyone on earth make it to heaven? We’ll have an eternity to pray for our brothers and sisters, and because we are In The Presence of Love and Mercy, we will want that to extend to everyone! :amen:


#17

[quote=T.A.Stobie, SFO]I know of no one who prays to or through a dead person.

I know of many people who have living people (on Earth and in heaven) pray for them to God.

God is pure love, and those in Heaven are filled with love. Love includes caring about others (including those still on Earth.) God wants us all to love each other. He can let those in Heaven, hear our requests for prayer from them to God for us. " The prayers of the righteous avail much." and who are more righteous then those already with God.

God bless.
[/quote]

I have a baby sister who died at 18 months of age… obviously a saint in heaven now… i have asked for her intercession many a time… not a problem… no different then asking for the intercession from any of the saints in heaven… :thumbsup:


#18

[quote=Katholikos]According to Catholic belief, “death” is the doorway to everlasting life. Protestants claim to believe this, also.

“He is not the God of the dead but of the living” Mt 22:32b.

“And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God” Rev 8:3-4.

As members of the Church founded by Christ, we are the Family of God. “Death” does not separate us. Catholics have been “praying to” the saints since the days of the Apostles. Carved on the wall near Peter’s tomb is the inscription: “Peter pray for the pious Christian men buried near your body” (The Tomb of St. Peter, by Margherita Guarducci, George G. Harrup & Co., 1959, p.146.)

Recommended reading: Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine" by Patrick Madrid.

You can also search under “Communion of Saints” online.

JMJ Jay
[/quote]

Jay ,you notice its angels that bring our earthly prayers before the throne,not the saints that present them… :thumbsup:


#19

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Jay ,you notice its angels that bring our earthly prayers before the throne,not the saints that present them… :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Umm, no. The 24 elders have the prayers first.
8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.


#20

[quote=Stylite]Umm, no. The 24 elders have the prayers first.
8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
[/quote]

Stylite. May you be so kind to give me chapter and verse that confirms what you are saying. Thanks :o


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