Praying to Mary.

We all know that ONLY God possess the following attributes:
Omnipotent (all-powerful)
Omni-present (everywhere)
Omniscient (all-knowing)

You have millions of prayers a second being offered to Mary (Also prayers offered to saints). People in all over the world, are praying the Rosary, asking Mary to be there at the hour of their death, asking her to guide them, help them, teach them, secure for them eternal redemption and imploring her to come dwell in their hearts as though she were able to fulfill all these requests! A Catholic may deny that Mary is a god, but by asking all these things of her, she would have to be God to do them. She must have powers and capabilities that are only possessed with God.

Please can someone give me an explanation for this contradiction?
Thank you.

you know, i have been a catholic for 49 years… i have yet to meet a person praying to mary in the same way that you would pray to the father, son and holy ghost… if i am going into the hospital for surgery and i ask you to pray for me, then i have communicated to you a request for your petition to God the father, son, or Holy Ghost… to help my surgery be successful… i have NOT prayed to you… that is all a catholic is doing when communicating to Mary, or any of the Saints in heaven… we are asking for their prayers… relax, and read a little more about catholocism from reputable sources, those anti-catholic references you reading or the anti-catholics that are giving you this false information are doing you an injustice… the truth is out there… :thumbsup:

peace

We know that to be in Heaven is to be with God Eternal. Therefore, there can be no ‘time’ in Heaven as one would think of it on earth. If Mary (along with all the angels and saints) exist in a state that is timeless, the fact that there are millions of prayers being offered up every second would not have any effect. She would be able to hear each of them separately if she so chose (which we believe she does choose, as she loves us all as her children).

A bit of further clarification about prayer to Mary: Catholics understand that Mary does nothing on her own, but only through Christ, like the rest of us. Mary cannot secure eternal salvation for us, nor “dwell in our hearts”, and anyone who prays to her for such things is misguided. However, she can and does intercede for us that Christ may save our souls and dwell in our hearts.

Considering that “pray” means ask, i.e. “Pray tell me you name”, means “Can I have your name please?” When we pray to Mary, we are asking her to intercede for us. It is like asking your friend to pray for your before surgery. We are asking Mary, the perfect Christian, to ask her Son to help us. That is Mary’s role, to direct us to her son. The “Hail Mary” is straight out of the bible. There is nothing unChristian, or unbiblical about the prayer itself, or the act of doing it.

Only God can create new life but I have two children which have come into this world through actions that I chose to take. If I had not acted as I did my children would not exist. It seems to me that God chose to share his power of creation with me. Isn’t it possible that he could do the same with those in heaven in regards to prayers? :ehh:

A Catholic may deny that Mary is a god, but by asking all these things of her, she would have to be God to do them. She must have powers and capabilities that are only possessed with God.

The convenient thing about dwelling in eternity is that you have all the time you need. We also know that those in Heaven are capable of knowing what happens to people on earth (particularly angels), and reacting to it (Lk. 15:7,10), so it certainly doesn’t attribute a divine attribute to Mary to say that she can do the same. And she can clearly speak to God just the same as anybody.

So basically, there are three attributes that are necessary to meet those requirements (dwelling in eternity, awareness of earthly happenings, and communication with God), and none of them are “powers and capabilities that are only possessed [by] God.”

If you mother is still alive, do you ask her to pray for you, to you ask her guidance and advice, if you were deathly ill would you not feel comfort in her presence?
Christ gave his mother to all of us when he gave her to John.
Edie

I believe what is causing your problem is your choice of words, “pray to Mary”. This is not what we do. Rather, we pray with Mary, and ask Mary to pray for us.

Nobody did bother to answer my question that is how can Mary (and saints) listen to all these prayers and respond to them when only God has the power to do that?

Only Dr. Colossus touched the subject but i just would like him to give a proof in the Bible that supports what he is saying. I don’t see any mention in the Bible that supports what he is saying.

Luke 1:28 Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with you.
Luke 1:42 Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

Homer, pray for me.

No difference except I cited scripture before I asked Mary to pray for me.

The previous posters are correct. Catholics all know what we mean when we say “pray to Mary and the Saints”. We mean “ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us with intercessory prayer” . This is no different than Paul asking people to pray for him with intercessory prayer.

See the Catechism of the CC #971 …This very special devotion…differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnte Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly forster this adoration…

All understanding of Marian doctrine hinges on the previous fact. Devotion does not eqaul Adoration. You may say you are devoted to Christ. You may even say you are devoted to your children or your wife/husband. Your heart knows you do not worship your children even if you used the same word.

God Bless

How can Mary and the Saints hear all these prayers? Through God’s grace. oops, sorry didn’t look for the scriptures first. I or others will get back to you on that one.:slight_smile:

Nobody did bother to answer my question that is how can Mary (and saints) listen to all these prayers and respond to them when only God has the power to do that?

Yes, we did. To recap:

  1. Time is not a concern for saints in eternity.
  2. People in Heaven are aware of things that happen on earth (Lk 15:7,10); they don’t have to be God to hear prayers.
  3. They don’t grant the requested favors; they only pray to God to grant them, which anyone can do.

Exactly what part of 1, 2, or 3 is unclear to you?

Reply to MariaG:

We mean “ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us with intercessory prayer” —> For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

How can Mary and the Saints hear all these prayers? Through God’s grace. —> Is this mentioned in the Holy Bible somewhere?

Mary and any ohter saint cannot hear our prayers, for they cannot see the hearts and read the minds to see which are true prayers and which are not. Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; **for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men. **(2 Chronicles 6:30).

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. ( Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

JPrejean if you read carefully Lk 15:7,10 you will notice that it does mention Angels and not dead people since there is a difference between Angels who are the servents of God before the creation of man and human beings who have no role on earth after they are dead.

What I understand is this: When we die to ourselves, we live in Christ. We are all of one body. That would include those in this life and those in heaven, for Christ destroyed death. There is nothing that separates us. We are still one body, (1 Cor 12) a body that continues to need each other regardless of where we are.

“We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin. For a dead person has been absolved from sin. If, then we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.” Rom 6:6-8

As the body, we are called to continue to “pray for one another” (James 5:16) That would include everyone in the body of Christ, not just the ones that are still on this earth.

In our humaness, we try to “understand” how this can be done. The problem is, we are trying to understand an infinite God with our finite minds.

Mary sees God face-to-face. God is infinite.
Thousands, millions and even billions of prayers is finite.

If, by the Grace of Christ, it’s possible for the finite Mary to see the infinite God face-to-face, then by the very same Grace of Christ, it’s more than possible for the finite Mary to hear thousands, millions and even billions of prayers-- which are merely finite.

[quote=homer]Only Dr. Colossus touched the subject but i just would like him to give a proof in the Bible that supports what he is saying. I don’t see any mention in the Bible that supports what he is saying.
[/quote]

There may be other scriptures, but John 8:58 provides insight into the timeless nature of God’s existence: “before Abraham was born, I AM.” If Jesus was merely indicating that he existed before Abraham, he would have said “before Abraham was born, I was”. This would be consistent with the possibility that He had no beginning and has no end in a chronological timeline. But this is not what the scriptures tell us. God’s claim to be “I AM” implies His present-tense existence at all points in history.

Saint Paul indicates that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). Christians that have left this earth are actually (not figuratively) with the Lord. The timeless nature of heaven is not what makes God omnipotent. Therefore, it does not exhalt Christians to be in a timless state and it does not minimize God’s omnipotence to have Christians with Him in that timeless state.

[quote=homer] human beings who have no role on earth after they are dead.
[/quote]

I always laugh at protestants that claim to be “Bible Christians” and try to beat Catholics up with the Book that the Catholic Church made Canon. I laugh because they always show us how little they really know.

Homer, if human beings have no role on earth after they are dead, then explain this Quote from the GOSPEL of St. Matthew.

(Matthew 27 51-53)

51 And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, 52 tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

THIS IS GOSPEL!!! Homer, do YOU deny the Gospel???

JPrejean if you read carefully Lk 15:7,10 you will notice that it does mention Angels and not dead people since there is a difference between Angels who are the servents of God before the creation of man and human beings who have no role on earth after they are dead.

If you read this thread carefully, you will see that I said that in my previous post. If you read your own argument carefully, you will see that your argument was that we were ascribing characteristics to the saints that were unique to God. Angels are not God, they are in Heaven, and they are aware of earthly happenings, and even gasp changes in someone’s internal frame of mind (conversion from sin, for example).

We mean “ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us with intercessory prayer” —> For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5)

If your interpretation of this passage were true, then it would be a denial of Christ’s mediatorship for anyone to pray for anyone else. Therefore, your use of the passage here is wrong.

How can Mary and the Saints hear all these prayers? Through God’s grace. —> Is this mentioned in the Holy Bible somewhere?

It’s mentioned that the angels do, so regardless of whether you believe it or not, you have to at least admit that there are entities that aren’t God that can hear prayers. Thus, your argument that we are giving saints unique attributes of God is nonsense.

Mary and any ohter saint cannot hear our prayers, for they cannot see the hearts and read the minds to see which are true prayers and which are not.

So what? No one ever said they could.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. ( Ecclesiastes 9: 5,6)

You have conclusively demonstrated that dead people no longer have mortal lives. Bravo.

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

Good thing that we don’t worship anything as God but God.

[quote=homer]We all know that ONLY God possess the following attributes:
Omnipotent (all-powerful)
Omni-present (everywhere)
Omniscient (all-knowing)
[/quote]

No many how many prayers are being offered, the amount of power needed to answer them is not truly infinite. Omnipotence is not needed to exert a finite amount of power. In addition to which, Mary and the Saints no more effect the answer to prayers than Christians living on earth effect miracles by their own power. The power is God’s.

No matter how many people are praying in how many places, their number and location remain finite. Omnipresence is not a requirement to be less than everywhere at once.

No many how many prayers are being prayed at a time, the amount of information to be handled remains finite. Omniscience is not necessary to handle a finite amount of information.

Mary and the saints do not possess, nor do they need to possess, omnipresence, omnipotence or omniscience to intercede far more effectively and powerfully than we can possibly imagine.

Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him. (1 Cor. 2:9)…including the ability to be heavenly prayer warriors beyond our earthly comprehension.

Justin

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