Praying to saints who are resting.

Hi,
I am going to Australia until the 9th of January and will hopefully be back on the net shortly after my return to Thailand. No, I did not experience the tidal wave or the earthquake.
Hebrews is a good book to read about the saints resting.
Hebrews 4:10 " For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
Galations 3:1 O foolish Roman Catholics! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 3:2 This only I want to learn from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works or by Mary or by the saints or by the hearing of faith?
3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh,or by Mary or by the saints.

No one can go to God, but that the Holy Spirit leads them to Jesus. The only reason you are a christian, if you are one, is because the Holy Spirit led you to Jesus. Now you , after being saved want to go to Mary and the saints and pray to them. You were saved by following the lead of the Holy Spirit, and now you dont trust Him even though it was He who led you to Jesus to be saved. You have lost your faith in Him and think He needs help.
Stop grieving the Holy Spirit. Go back and put your faith in Him. Stop saying that He is failing because you in your wisdom dont understand why there are so many denominations. Forget about that and just believe in Him. What does redemption mean. It means to buy back. That means you have come from God. And now you think He is not potent enought to redeem you. God can’t redeem something that was not His.
Dont be dry any longer.
May Chirst mature in your heart
Walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There’s nothing wrong with asking our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to pray with us and for us to God. Catholics just don’t exclude those who see God face to face from being our brethren.

[quote=edwinG]Hi,
I am going to Australia until the 9th of January and will hopefully be back on the net shortly after my return to Thailand. No, I did not experience the tidal wave or the earthquake.
Hebrews is a good book to read about the saints resting.
Hebrews 4:10 " For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
Galations 3:1 O foolish Roman Catholics! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 3:2 This only I want to learn from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works or by Mary or by the saints or by the hearing of faith?
3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh,or by Mary or by the saints.

No one can go to God, but that the Holy Spirit leads them to Jesus. The only reason you are a christian, if you are one, is because the Holy Spirit led you to Jesus. Now you , after being saved want to go to Mary and the saints and pray to them. You were saved by following the lead of the Holy Spirit, and now you dont trust Him even though it was He who led you to Jesus to be saved. You have lost your faith in Him and think He needs help.
Stop grieving the Holy Spirit. Go back and put your faith in Him. Stop saying that He is failing because you in your wisdom dont understand why there are so many denominations. Forget about that and just believe in Him. What does redemption mean. It means to buy back. That means you have come from God. And now you think He is not potent enought to redeem you. God can’t redeem something that was not His.
Dont be dry any longer.
May Chirst mature in your heart
Walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
[/quote]

Hi,Edwin,I hope you had a blessed Christmas.On Hebrew 4 Vs 10 this has to do with them resting on the sabath just like God did when he created His creations. I dont see the point here you are trying to make. :confused: God bless

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi,Edwin,I hope you had a blessed Christmas.On Hebrew 4 Vs 10 this has to do with them resting on the sabath just like God did when he created His creations. I dont see the point here you are trying to make. :confused: God bless
[/quote]

His point is to try to sit on the spiritual soapbox and accuse “us Poor Catholics” of idioltry and like we are deluded idiots inform us that Jesus is our on and only redeemer as if we didn’t know that.Good to know that edwinG has the same attributes as the almighty and can read hearts(SARCASM):rolleyes: Thanks spokenword and come home.God Bless

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]His point is to try to sit on the spiritual soapbox and accuse “us Poor Catholics” of idioltry and like we are deluded idiots inform us that Jesus is our on and only redeemer as if we didn’t know that.Good to know that edwinG has the same attributes as the almighty and can read hearts(SARCASM):rolleyes: Thanks spokenword and come home.God Bless
[/quote]

Hi Lisa.I keep telling you I am in His Arms. :wink: God Bless

EdwinG, You started this thread by assuming that you know the hearts of most Catholic didn’t you? You assumed that you KNOW the Catholic Faith, didn’t you? And the you started to preach to all who would listen on just how to pray, worship and think.

Sir, it seems that you are trying to win Catholics over to your faith.

What is your faith, or what Church be represents what you believe to be The Way? You are obligated to be truthful once you start to call names, attack Catholics and tell us how to pray. Come on and get it out on the table so we can have something to talk about.

My Dear EdwinG,

I have provided an essay discussing 'The Bible-Only Theory" or “Sola Scriptura”.
geocities.com/militantis/solascriptura.html

Why did I do this? It is given to you so you may get a grip on one tenent of Protestism that is easy to understand. I can see that you are wanting to blast Catholicism into oblivion. I suggest that you defend your belief of “Bible Only” or Sola Scriptura. You most certainly have thought of it, haven’t you?

[quote=edwinG]Now you, after being saved want to go to Mary and the saints and pray to them.
[/quote]

You must have a magical crystal ball to actually see your future and be so assured of your salvation.

Prayers are offered to God through the intercession of holy people, the blesseds and the saints. We don’t have to ask any of the Saint to pray for us to be saved, however it would seem foolish not to since even the very Apostles recommended praying for one another.

“Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.” James 5:16

and now you dont trust Him even though it was He who led you to Jesus to be saved.

We trust in Him to lead the Church into All Truth untill the end of time.

:amen:

As for the rest of what you say, it just shows your ignorance of Catholicism and your not wanting to learn but to preach us your heresy, especially with such a high post count as yours.

Hebrews 4:10 " For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."

This would mean that one ceases from the struggles of the world, but why would one cease from serving God just because one’s soul enters heaven? Being in the presence of God would be rest enough for anyone and since we will run and not get weary and walk and not faint I would suggest that God in His loving mercy has plenty for us to do once we “enter into his rest.”

And just when did God cease from His works, since He is still living and active in the lives of His people. You pulled this soooo far outta context that it would snap back and hit you in the face if it was a rubber band. God perhaps took a break after creation, but I certainly would never say that he has ceased from all his works in the sense that you suggest.

You wanna talk about Hebrews…what is a great cloud of witnesses? It is a cloud of all the faithful departed. Heaven is not a spectator sport…you act like the angels just sit there on their hands…Obviously God is all powerful (All everything) but then just why did He create angels and why does He send them to do things for Him when he clearly has no need of any lesser beings help. :smiley:

Galations 3:1 O foolish Roman Catholics! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 3:2 This only I want to learn from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works or by Mary or by the saints or by the hearing of faith?
3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh,or by Mary or by the saints.

Just WHO are you to alter the Word of God? This is not what any NT I ever read says.

I feel sure that even in Thailand (or Australia!) they have real Catholic materials that would readily cure your misbegotten and misinformed ignorance of Catholic teaching. Oh Wait! We’re ON a Catholic website that is dedicated to apologetics and HAS such info easily accessible here! **My GOSH! ** If you were an honest soul who wanted truth and was willing to actually read what we really teach and really TALK to us…you might just change your views…But NAW! That would show that you are willing to read something that comes from a people that are rumored to be the great whore of Babylon and idolators and anything but, oh ANYTHING BUT Christians that are members of the original NT church. But of course no one else is Christian unless they believe like you do, right?

Do us all a favor…stay in Australia…

You are absolutely correct Church Militant! See this guy presumes to change the words of scriptures and read hearts,just who is being bewitched here?:whistle: God Bless

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]You are absolutely correct Church Militant! See this guy presumes to change the words of scriptures and read hearts,just who is being bewitched here?:whistle: God Bless
[/quote]

HI Lisa, According to my understanding it is the Gospell according to EdwinG. :smiley: God Bless

[quote=SPOKENWORD]HI Lisa, According to my understanding it is the Gospell according to EdwinG. :smiley: God Bless
[/quote]

I totally agree with your analization of the facts that have been presented in this case.:clapping: God Bless and I still want you to come back home;)

I just realised that edwin is going to Australia, so this is a hit and run thread:hmmm: The other reflection was that his country is in dire straits people are dead,people are needing help and he is leaving the country:hmmm: edwinG needs to read the last judgement scriptures, the seperation of the sheep and goats or did he change that too?Just a thought.God Bless

Hi all,

for anyone reading this, please note that this thread more or less originates from the Protestant-Catholic dialogue. where most of these issues have been dealt with already.

God bless,
TTM

[quote=edwinG]Hebrews is a good book to read about the saints resting. Hebrews 4:10 " For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His."
[/quote]

Jesus rested on the Sabbath day, yet did not hesitate to do good works. He also intercedes for us, even though he is in Heaven. Is it not logical that the Body of Christ, who shares in His Eternal Priesthood, do the same in Heaven?

Galations 3:1 O foolish Roman Catholics! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 3:2 This only I want to learn from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works or by Mary or by the saints or by the hearing of faith?
3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh,or by Mary or by the saints.

Well, what can I say? I didn’t realise edwinG was God himself :eek:. May I ask what gives you the authority to do this? Sure, I believe the Holy Spirit is in you (if you’ve been baptised using Jesus’ words), but I believe the particular Charism to interpret the Scriptures rests on those who wrote half of it - the Catholic Church.

No one can go to God, but that the Holy Spirit leads them to Jesus. The only reason you are a christian, if you are one, is because the Holy Spirit led you to Jesus.

Agreed.

Now you , after being saved want to go to Mary and the saints and pray to them. You were saved by following the lead of the Holy Spirit, and now you dont trust Him even though it was He who led you to Jesus to be saved. You have lost your faith in Him and think He needs help. Stop grieving the Holy Spirit. Go back and put your faith in Him.

Actually, we rely totally on God’s grace for Salvation. As I explained in the previous thread, it is the misunderstanding you have about what we do and what we do not do that leads you to think otherwise.

Stop saying that He is failing because you in your wisdom dont understand why there are so many denominations.

Actually, no, we don’t believe the Holy Spirit is failing. The Holy Spirit is present on all the Churches, but the particular Charism required to not teach falsehood rests on the authority set up by Jesus himself. It is due to our own pride, disobedience and sinfulness that disunity came to be. One cannot have authority or unity without the other.

Forget about that and just believe in Him.

Faith without reason is blind. This is why God requires us to love him with all our mind. Our reasoning capacities come from God himself.

What does redemption mean. It means to buy back. That means you have come from God. And now you think He is not potent enought to redeem you. God can’t redeem something that was not His.
Dont be dry any longer.

I find it sad that you keep insisting your own point without trying to understand our point of view. This spirit of pride and arrogance does not come from God. Do you honestly think that we do not believe God is “potent enough” to redeem us? I think your accusations are dangerously bordering on giving false witness to our belief. Please reconsider your stance, and come with humility to discuss and be open to God to work in you, because seeking God is a work of a lifetime. Pride locks us into our own position because one can then not risk admitting one’s wrong beliefs. Please do not risk having this happen to you.

God bless,
TTM

Honestly, I hope Edwin clings to these unsubstantial rebuttles long eneogh that the road he travels to maintain them gets crooked eneogh that he realizes his position is unmarked and his destination is hidden .http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

God speed and return safely.

‘For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His’

his argument defeats itself. he says that the saints don’t intercede for us, because this verse says they’re resting. but if you read the very verse he quoted, it says that they are resting AS GOD IS. edwin then says that the Holy Spirit (God, by the way) is the one who saved us (worked, in other words), and that we should trust HIM (God) to hear our prayers, not ask for the intercession of saints who are resting (according to the verse he quoted, resting JUST LIKE GOD.)

you can’t have it both ways, edwin. even down under. :slight_smile:

grace and peace be with you all.

[quote=Vincent]There’s nothing wrong with asking our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to pray with us and for us to God. Catholics just don’t exclude those who see God face to face from being our brethren.
[/quote]

Hi Vincent,
The crux of the issue is here. There is something wrong with going to the saints. It diminishes God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. It shifts your focus.

Tell me what is wrong with not going to the saints.

Why cant you limit your prayers to God . Jesus gave us the model, Our Father in heaven.
May Christ grow in your hearts
Walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We ask the saints to pray for us to Jesus and pray with us to Jesus,just like we would ask someone at Church to pray for us. There is Nothing wrong with going directly with Jesus and it does not dimish God,just like asking your neighbor to pray for you doesn’t diminish God.God Bless

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